Editor's Note: In 2004, Black people voted 89 percent for the Democratic presidential candidate and 10 percent for Bush. Some pundits argue that the Democratic Party is the best hope for African-Americans, given the chilling Right Wing bent of Republicans. ...


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...I resent this kind of stereotyping a group of people, based upon their color, into a political affiliation.

Parties attract people because of shared core values. To say that one party or the other is the best fit simply because of the color of your skin is offensive to me.

As equally offensive as saying all 'rich' or 'poor' people, business owners or union members, or any other group of people 'fit' into a party based upon these classifications.

Further, I'm concerned about the potential objectivity of such an article that uses such language as "the chilling Right Wing bent of Republicans" but doesn't have an equally condemning description of the 'extreme Left Wing bent of the Democrats.'

What any person (no matter what shade their skin tone) should be doing in order to determine which party is the best fit, is to identify what they believe and then see which party most closely fits those beliefs.

But to expect that any group of people would fit into a certain political party, or is better served by a party, based upon their skin wrong.

I feel neither party appears to serve people of color very well. I say this also. In every political party I've come into contact with corruption is ever present. The political parties call it politics, I call it stacking the deck.

own party. It could be called the Black party. The party would address black issues. We may not be able to elect a president but we could at least bring our issues to the table, a table where we are not now invited to sit. The party would not have a Democrat bent or a Republican bent.

The Democrats take the black vote for granted and the Republicans for the most part forget us. Neither party as a whole has addressed any black issue, although some of my people think that the voucher program (Republican) has to an extent addressed one of our issues.

I am an Independent and vote for the person not the party

Maggie, Race and racism are a major issue in America today, you may not want to face that fact but the more people deny the obvious, it will never go away. You should be able to see that on this site.

Before you all jump on me for "playing the race card" in this case it is not a card but a fact.

Now how are you going to maintain "equality" with a mentality like that?

You say "...Race and racism are a major issue in America today, you may not want to face that fact but the more people deny the obvious, it will never go away. You should be able to see that on this site."

I say, "With that kind of approach, Purnhrt, you encourage the seperation of ethnic cultures."

What, the NAACP, Rainbow Coalilition, and Sharpton's group not enough to bring forth the "black man's calvary"? Where are these groups when racial unity is encouraged and embraced? There ain't any money in that, that's why.

This thread is a crock and another result of ignorance. Had the focus been on the addressing ethnic needs of the community instead of addressing the seperation of cultures, politically or otherwise, there would have been a base for credible debate.

Let's read your quote again, Purnhrt. " may not want to face that fact but the more people deny the obvious, it will never go away."

Who's in denial? You? The Toledo Journal? How can you preach "equality" then encourage "seperation", Purnhrt? Heck, your friggen title of your post says it all,"We black people need our own party."

This thread just encourages segregation and there's no "equality" in that. With ethnic groups, it's all about the benny's and the media source of this thread isn't helping matters.

From Walter E. Williams, who I'm sure some consider to be an "Uncle Tom":

Insulting Blacks

"I don't feel no ways tired. I come too far from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy. I don't believe He brought me this far," drawled presidential aspirant Hillary Clinton, mimicking black voice to a black audience, at the First Baptist Church of Selma, Alabama. I'm wondering if Mrs. Clinton visits an Indian reservation she might cozy up to them saying, "How! Me not tired. Me come heap long way. Road mighty rough. Sky Spirit no bring me this far." Or, seeking the Asian vote she might say, "I no wray tired. Come too far I started flum. Road berry clooked. Number one Dragon King take me far."

The occasion of Mrs. Clinton's speech was the 42nd anniversary of Bloody Sunday, on March 7, 1965, when 600 civil rights marchers were attacked by police with billy clubs, cattle prods and tear gas, one of the high points in the black civil rights struggle. Commemorating a key point in American history is one thing, but a white person mimicking black dialect is demeaning and insulting. And, if it buys her votes from those in attendance, not much flattering can be said about them.

Mrs. Clinton later explained her drawl, around black audiences, to a meeting of the National Association of Black Journalists, "I lived all those years in Arkansas, and, you know, I'm in this interracial marriage." The interracial marriage bit has to do with the frequent reference to former President Clinton, by the Congressional Black Caucus and others, as the "first black president."

Mrs. Clinton is not alone in demeaning talk to black people; she's in good company with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who talk of "going from the outhouse to the White House" and "from disgrace to amazing grace" and other such nonsense. Neither Clinton nor Revs. Sharpton and Jackson address white audiences in that manner. Before a predominantly black audience, during his 2004 presidential bid, Sen. John Kerry said, in reference to so many blacks in prison, "That's unacceptable, but it's not their fault." I doubt whether Kerry would have told a white audience that jailed white people were faultless. Kerry probably holds whites responsible for their criminal behavior.

In 2004, NAACP President Kweisi Mfume said of President George Bush, "We have a president that's prepared to take us back to the days of Jim Crow segregation and dominance." During the 2000 presidential campaign, Rev. Jesse Jackson warned black audiences by telling them that a Bush win would turn the civil rights clock back to the days of Jim Crow. Now that Bush's two-term presidency is near its end, why wouldn't someone ask Jesse and Kweisi about the accuracy of their predictions?

Suppose some demagogue in 2000 told Jewish Americans that a Bush presidency would mean concentration camps, or told Japanese-Americans that his presidency would mean internment? Do you think such pronouncements would have been welcomed and applauded? I'm sure that had someone made such a stupid prediction to Jewish and Japanese-Americans, they would have had ridicule and scorn heaped upon them.

What does it say about blacks who can be taken in by pandering, alarmist nonsense from both whites and blacks as a means to get their votes? As a black man, I don't find the most obvious answer very flattering.

Scotty, beam me up!!!

of Hillary speaking to audiences in the South and I agree she tends to lay on the phoney Southern accent and drawl pretty thick.

It makes her look ridiculous and it's completely unnecessary. People want you to act like who you really are...if you're a middle-aged white woman who grew up in Illinois, speak like a middle-aged white woman who grew up in Illinois.

* Democrats You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righteous.

Republican: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?

I choose to be independant.

rescue me

Hillary tends to try to 'fit in' to what ever group she's speaking to - in absurd ways. I've heard her try to speak Black, & "South". She's not alone in this - I've seen & heard presidential candidates try to 'fit in' where ever it is they are speaking. Wasn't it Al Gore that did this when he went hunting? It's demeaning to those they are speaking to, and fools nobody. Personally, I don't think Hillary has a chance in hell of winning the election - simply because too many men are going to equate her shrill fish wife voice to a nagging wife, and aren't about to sign up for 4 years of having that voice screech at them all the time. I wish Colin Powell would run for president - I think he could be trusted, as well as anybody could. (hey, prnhurt - Colon Powell is BLACK & I'd still vote for him!)

prnhurt - You have an iceberg sized chip on your shoulder. Also, there already WAS a Black Party, per se - The Black Panters, if I recall, their office was on Dorr St. back in the 70's. (And like already posted here, the Blacks have more Black representation groups than any other race). I don't know if they're still active - but I do recall that while the Black Panthers may have started with good intentions, they got sidetracked with lots of illegal activity & violence. I'm not suggesting it's because they were Black - because there's plenty of white groups (Nazi's) that do & did the same. I'm saying it has nothing to do with race - it's the attitude, the mindset that believes another race is out to 'get them' or do them wrong, or is the cause of some ill in society. Actually, I've always been a little surprised that the Japanese-Americans haven't risen up & rioted over how they were treated in this country (concentration camps). I have no gripe against any one race - but I do get annoyed when I hear Blacks act like they've been the only persecuted race in this country. Where is all the Native-American outrage? The Hispanic-American outrage (oh, yeah, that's already showing up)? The Asian-American outrage? The Jewish, Irish or Polish outrage? I suggest purnurt study his history - he'd learn that the Blacks do not own the corner on suffering in this country. And before you get your underbritches in a twist prnhurt - I am well aware of the history of the Blacks in this country. I've studied it quite a bit (I am currently reading "Coming Of Age In Mississippi"), and I 100 percent agree that Blacks have seriously been mistreated in this country. That said - I am of the mindset that at some point, it's time to move on - to keep blaming 'whitey' for all the Black's misfortune, is the same as a 30 year old still blaming his parents for all his problems. There are a lot of highly successful, educated, articulate blacks in this country. This is just a suggestion & observation - but perhaps the Black youth would do better to aspire to the successful Blacks, rather than wearing falling down prison garb pants & aspiring to the latest rap or hip-hop artist who slams women, cops & promotes violence & uses highly vulgar sexual description in reference to women (and yes, there's plenty of whites that do this too). I am aware that there are some Blacks that would accuse those successful, articulate, educated Blacks as being "too white". Rubbish. I see as many, or more, trashy whites & Hispanics as I do Blacks - so the same could be said to those white & Hispanic youths. The difference I guess, is that it is not the whites or Hispanics or Asians that are bitching about what political party best represents them, or claiming that their race is being mistreated & held back. ( A white trash mama is often proud as hell of her abilty to drink her man under the table & pole dance at the same time.) I will leave it at this - that as long as you can't see beyond the color of your skin, and as long as you blame another race (s) for your ills, as long as you feel that Blacks are & will always be downtrodden & treated unfairly - then you have an easy scapegoat, and no good reason at all to think otherwise. And the kids who grow up around the angry racist - blame it all on whitey - mentality - will surely just keep breeding more racial contempt.

I never really thought that political parties were race driven. I was always a bit befuddled myself, because Republican & Democrat never really quite jived with my mindset. I can see good, evil & similarities in both. I can see crooked politicians in both. I've come to the conclusion that I am Libertarian more than anything. However, given how this country is run completely on the Republican & Democratic parties - any Libertarian candidate would have to 'choose' a party to run under, or be swept under the rug. THAT makes me angry.

purnhrt - You don't think the Republican or Democratic parties represent the Blacks? I don't think either of them represent ME, and I am white. This may be a jolt to your "Blackness", but guess what? There's a lot of people, of all races, who feel the same as you do - and it has nothing to do with their race. I suggest you get over yourself - you're more than a Black man. You're an American MAN. My 'whiteness' does not define me, no more than your "Blackness" should define YOU. I also think it's a bit arrogant that Blacks think they're the only race that's suffered in this country. There are currently a lot of people in this country who survived the concentration camps in Germany - Jerry Springer is one. They came over on a boat, and were often given names that weren't accurate. They came with nothing, and built a successful life in America. I have never once heard or read of one of them whining. They've moved on. And while you may have ancestors that actually came from Africa, who maybe were slaves - you, prnhurt were not a slave, and neither were your parents. I fully respect people's need & right to acknowledge their ancestry - their heritage - their roots,so to speak. And they should never, ever forget where their ancestors came from, or the hardships they went through. But sometimes, it seems many Blacks seem to need that giant iceberg chip on their shoulders. I can't speak for all, but I've never done wrong to any Blacks, and haven't been done wrong by them. Or Hispanics, or Asians, or the Polish or Jewish people. So your iceberg chip is somewhat lost on me. Maybe if the Blacks lost their mantra of "I'm black & angry & damned sick & tired of being treated as less", they'd realize that maybe they really aren't being treated as less. At least not any less than most people are. For instance - my son is paying full price, out of HIS pocket, for his degree at UT. Meanwhile, UT has scads of ethnic students (Black, Asian, Hispanic & other) who are getting a free, or cheaper ride, because of their race. That hardly seems fair to ME. Kind of like a reverse descrimination.

So I pose this question to purnhurt - what exactly are you looking for in a political party? What "Black" needs or issues are not being met by either? This is a genuine plea for an answer.

"Hillary tends to try to 'fit in' to what ever group she's speaking to"

Ive seen other lizards do this too.


purnhrt - That's your response? I asked you a very basic, simple question - what are you looking for in a political party, and what issues are they not meeting? Your non-answer makes me think you really haven't thought much along those lines. Anybody can complain - but be specific, or nobody knows what it is you're complaining about. Do you dispute anything I've said? If so, what & why? I'm really not trying to be a pain in your ass, I would like to know. I may be way off base here - enlighten me.

I do admit that my ire is raised a bit when I hear how not enough is being done for the Blacks. My dad is a retired Toledo fireman, and I remember how hard & long he studied to take the tests for promotions - only to have the promotion always end up going to a black man who scored lower than most everybody else. He finally said "Whatever" and retired. He couldn't win - as long as they felt they had to meet racial quotas (that was before women were 'allowed' to be firemen, now they probably also have to meet sex quotas). Simply put - it didn't matter how well the white firemen did on the tests, as long as there was a black man taking the test as well, he was the shoe in. Even if he didn't have the test scores, experience, seniority, or knowledge the higher scorers did.


Still no answer to Starling's honest question?

Kinda gutless.

Can't bite on that fish. I know the kind of dialogue that would be created if I gave a true answer to Starling's ridiculous questions. I have been on this blog long enough to know better than to incite you and others to riot!!!!!!!!! So, I remain the gutless, angry, black woman. Thank you very much!!

prnhurt - I don't see my why my questions are not worthy of being answered. I did not ask them to be combative, but you seem to take great offense at the slightest things, and presume if people are not black, they won't 'get it'. I did tell you that I also have had problems with the political parties - that I never felt they really stood for what mattered to me - which is how I stumbled upon the Libertarian party - and gadzooks! It is the only party that speaks to me, but sadly, it will not even be seriously recognised unless the candidate sticks a "republican" or "democrat" under their party affiliation - like they have to sell out what they believe, just to run the race. I am furious at both the D & R parties - both are crooked beyond belief, and both have sold this country down the river on many counts. My personal gripes with both the R & D parties, is how they are both ban crazy, and push more & bigger govt., and dangle socialized medicine in our faces when we know it will mean higher taxes, and the poor will end up paying for health care of middle class people. (my take). I am furious at how both the R & D parties view our borders. I am furious & frustrated that this country is run (and has been for over 50 years) by about a dozen families - and the top executives get million dollar paychecks, while they suck the lifeblood out of the citizens, tossing them a small bone to shut them up. I am furious how both the R & D parties were bought & paid for by Big Pharma, & the Cancer Society to sell more drugs, & to medicate more of our children, and that the cancer society top executives make enormous paychecks, beyond what I can even imagine - & still they beg for donations to cure cancer - and they don't want to cure cancer, because there's too much money in it (there IS a cure, but they can't patent it because it's already patented for something else - thus, no money to be made). There is a simple blood test that will test for cancer (to find & cure early) - and yet, they don't push for people to get the blood test. They push for expensive mammograms, MRI's, colonoscopies, etc. I am furious that the only political party that sees through all this, is Ron Paul (Libertarian, running as R by necessity) - and he won't likely stand a chance (not a big enough name). I am furious beyond belief, that both the D & R parties are 'for' a new world order - which has been in the works for 40 years - to 'blend' all north america as one, that will allow this country to be run by illegal Mexicans. I am angry that the D & R's have sold this country to China. I am furious that we spend 65 million (billion?) dollars a year on illegal Mexian's health care. I am furious at what the war is costing daily, while our own citizens do without. I am furious that this SCHIPS health care program is funded by tobacco taxes, and a family of 4 can earn $80,000 a year & still qualify for SCHIPS - and that the main recipient of SCHIPS are illegal Mexicans. I am terrified that the new ID cards will have chips in them that will track us, and will hold every personal detail about us. I am angry that the wealthy run every damned thing, and middle American can barely squeek by, to say nothing of poor America. I am angry that our country has more people in prison per capita than any other country in the world - many for silly drug (pot) charges. I am angry at our justice system - he who has the best ($$$$) lawyer wins. I learned how crooked our justice system was a decade ago, with my son. First offense, no priors, honor student - young & scared over debt & committed an armed robbery (got $300 split 4 ways). Prosecutor wanted him to do 5 years, judge agreed in writing. Judge made him do over 10 years. Meanwhile, I sent the judge news clippings of repeat bank robbers, murderers, rapists - many black (my son is white) - who got off in six or less years. I am furious that no party will do anything about our justice system - that can imprison a man for 20 years - & release this man when DNA proves he didn't do the crime (or the 'victim' admits she lied) - and he is just let go, like it never happened, but he has to work like a dog to get that felony removed (if ever), and it's rare (if ever) they give him any settlement for the time he wrongly served. This justice system is crooked, and doesn't always work - regardless of race, is my point. I am tired of the govt allowing children to be expelled from schools for drawing picture of ray guns (don't know if that's a govt issue). I am tired of hearing how the childrens' protection agency walks away, and reading how those children were killed later. I am tired of misuse of funds - with too much going in the pockets of the higher ups. I am tired of knowing there are 'secret meetings' yearly to figure out how to run the world - and the D & R KNOW it, hell, they probably GO.

I am tired of them throwing money at the school systems - when it is not money that is needed to fix the problems. I am tired of them tearing down 50 yr old schools, with the mindset that a new school will cure the problem. I would like a political party to clean house with the banks - as yet, I have not heard either the R or D party even address the issues. (crazy fees, charges, etc.) Banks & Big Pharma run this country - hell, they own this country. I would like to see less 'health/sex' education in schools - and more life skills taught. My daughter was pretty much ignored, dismissed in high school - one of her teachers admitted this to me, she didn't even bother to issue her a book or tests, just walked on by her desk. My daughter was not a good student - she had personal problems, & erected a wall, and laughed off her school problems (to save face, I'm sure). I didn't learn her teacher even did this, until I went to an open house the following year, and my son( a good student) had the same teacher. This teacher laughed & joked about it - I had no idea, although I never missed a conference or open house. I had to wonder, how many other kids were simply 'dismissed' because they were more trouble than the teacher cared to deal with. (and my daughter is smart - high IQ, just had a hard patch back then).

I am angry at what's happening to medical insurance. I am furious that the govt. has allowed the medical board (who has never practiced medicine) to dictate to Dr's. what or how they practice medicine, or what they can or cannot prescribe. (I've had a lot of talks with my Dr's about this). That is is the insurance companies that dictate how long a patient may stay in the hospital, not the medical condition. That the best medical care is limited to the very rich, and the poor often get better coverage than the middle class (our insurance has a $2,400 deductable),even though my husband is a 30 yr employee who pays into his insurance). I am angry at what hospitals are allowed to charge for the services they provide.

purnhrt - I don't even know if the issues I want answers to are even in the politicans arena. But these are the things that disturb me, that I'd love to see a political party address. But I see the candidates do the same thing that local candidates do - they stick to safe topics (locals stuck to 'Southwick', retail, & whether the police should have to kick in towards their insurance.). They all talk a big talk, but nobody ever has a clear plan. When I asked you what issues you were concerned about that the political parties weren't addressing, it was because I really wanted to know what you had to say on the subject. But again, you seem to dismiss anybody who is not black. How on Earth, can a simple dialogue about issues that concern us, be interpreted by you as an attempt to incite a RIOT? That sounds pretty racist to me. I am talking to you as one American woman to another - and race is not an issue at all to me. I have spent the last 10 years, trying to learn & read - to try to understand what the Blacks lived through (and other races), and I would never diminish the way Blacks (and other races) have been treated in this country. On the other hand, I heard a study not long ago, how many Black kids never even heard of some of the most important Blacks in history - dispite a Black history month. I am trying to understand, to learn - but it's a two way street. I keep hearing Blacks say we need a dialogue - but if your response is typical, it will never get any better, and that is part of the problem. I am not your enemy, so please don't treat me like one.

Angry white woman!

It doesn't sound like you really want a dialog. It sounds like you want to engage purnhrt in a confrontation.

purnhrt you should just answer the question.



Starling, maybe instead of writing one of your encylopedia-sized posts, you could limit your point of discussion just a tad.

purnhrt, you did this on another thread. Always preaching 'dialogue' this and 'dialogue' that about black-white issues, then you're asked to engage in debate about something along those lines, and you totally shut down, saying its "just a black thang." Nobody here is taking you seriously.

Issues about race are difficult issues for most people to discuss. I know its very difficult for me. It would be easy to say, we are all God's children, so lets get along. Well, it doesn't seem to work that way. No one can understand how it feels to be discriminated against because of race until you walk in that person's shoes who is being discriminated against. Some people are more sensitive than others, so different people handle discrimination differently. Sometimes I come to negative conclusions about people just because of the way they look. I am pleased as punch when I am wrong. Perceptions rule us all, however. If I open my front door and there is a person standing there wearing a hockey mask and carrying an ax, my perceptions tell me this is not a good thing, except if its halloween and he or she have to be carrying a rubber ax. Just remember this, remember how all of us felt so unified when President Bush stood at the rubble of the Twin Towers and said to the terrorists," We have heard your message and you will hear from us soon." It wasn't about race, it was about Americans. One of my favorite commercials shows a line of row houses and the commentator said, "There were people who thought 911 would change America,.... it did." American flags faded-in being displayed from every row house. By the way, I'm no George Bush fan, nor do I approve of the war in Iraq.

purnhrt - Yes, I am angry about some things our govt. does or doesn't do, the condition of this country, and fearful. But my anger has nothing to do with me being a white woman - it has to do with me being an American woman. I fail to see why my race even would enter into the things I feel angry or upset about, they aren't racial issues I am angry about. I have no issues with Blacks or any other race - never have, and I've never had Blacks have issues with me (that I know of). You made a post suggesting there needs to be a Black party, because the democrats & Republcians don't address the issues you find important. I simply asked you, as one American woman to another, what issues you felt needed to be addressed - and you shut down, and said if you responded, it would incite a riot & you wouldn't have any part in that. I responded to that, by telling you what my problems were with the R & D parties, and what issues I was upset about, that never seem to get addressed - and shared my frustrations over that. And again, you blow me off, and call me an angry white woman. I'm a bit curious why you assume I'm trying to troll you into a 'riot'. I have no reason to be nasty with you, and I asked those questions out of a true interest. From my side of the fence, you appear to be the racist, not me. When you dismiss any dialogue from anybody simply because they aren't black - it's racist. I can't help that I'm not black. But I am an American woman who does care about this country - and there's so much that's going on behind the scenes that terrifies me. I don't think it's a black or white issue at all, but an American issue. If I am wrong, please explain - I'd truly like to know. But don't blast me for sharing what fears & angers I have, when you won't even disclose what you're upset about. I only shared to show you that you don't have to be Black to be unhappy with the political parties or issues.

Regardless of your political views on this subject we should note that the black population should do something to harness it's political power. If that means starting it's own party or choosing one party over another I don't know. But they should do something.

Why? Because it's not even the largest minority in the US anymore. That means issues important to black people are fading farther and farther from the limelight. Hispanics outnumber Blacks today and Asians have been growing in large numbers as well.



And in 10 years, we may all be minorities - with Illegal Mexicans being the majority.

Come on now, what is an illegal Mexican?

Its the the same thing as an illegal Austrian, Englishman, South African, Australian, or anyone else who hasn't obtained a Visa, green card or citizenship to stay in the United States.

Exactly JK. Why is that such a hard concept for people to follow?

I thought the term would be "an illegal alien from Mexico."

prnhurt - means the same thing, although I hate the term "alien" - makes me think of little green men from Mars. Illegal Mexicans are a huge problem in this country, and will get worse. This country already spends 65 million (billion?) dollars a year on health care for illegal Mexicans. That is money that could be spent on American citizens of all colors. I think immigration is great - if done the legal way. But the illegals aren't doing it the legal way. One of the largest hospitals in Texas holds the honor of the most births per day in this country - about 45 percent of those births are of Mexican illegals, who's babies become citizens of this country simply by virtue of being born here. And our tax dollars pay for them to be born & all subsequent health care, education, etc. the rest of their lives. I heard a radio news program that said that 90 percent of all crimes & murders in Los Angeles (or perhaps California, I don't recall) were done by illegal Mexicans. And if some of those running for president get elected, they plan to make life easier on the illegals, so they can fully enjoy the perks of being in America. Like I said - in 10 years, they will outnumber all other races in America. In some cities in the USA, they already do.



I don't know if Twyla is angry for not being born white. That sounds a little far fetched. Most African Americans I know aren't angry about not being born white. The African Americans I know aren't angry. Its more about frustration that you can't take anything for granted, especially your rights. For instance, several years ago I went to a Kroger store with an African American friend. The lady ahead of him bought about eighty dollars worth of groceries and wrote a check for the amount the cashier told her. The cashier asked the lady, who was white, if the address on the check was her current address. The lady answered yes and continued on her way. My African American friend bought about nine dollars worth of groceries. The cashier asked him for three forms of identification. Later that week this same African American friend was approahed by a police officer in a parking lot and told to step away from the car he was about to enter because a very shabbily dressed white male said that my friend was stealing his car. The policeman took my friend's car keys and gave the keys to the white male. My friend protested and was told if he didn't shut up that he would get tasered or worse. The policeman decided to look in the glove compartment and found the registration for the car and discovered that the car belonged to my friend and not the shabbily dressed white male. The policeman told the white male to leave and then told my friend that his behavior was disrespectful to a police officer and he might get arrested anyway. The reason I'm telling these stories is because things like this happen all the time. The level of frustration must be horrendous. That's what I think Twyla sounds angry about. Its things like this that make African Americans suspicious about everything whites do.

that I am seen as being angry, from what I have posted here, when starling02 IS angry, but she is a white woman and not perceived to be angry.

to have the nerve of this woman to even label me as a racist bigot is an insult to me, and she has tried to do this to me personally on SEVERAL occassions.

I've about had it with her Rainbow Coalition mentality, where she rears her vindictive ignorance when race is involved then disappears when real questions are posed to her, with her only response is "whatever".

Friggen coward.

I've felt alone for a while while dealing with her garbage, and now that I can see that it's not me with the other comments consening her racist views, it makes me even more insulted that she can continue to spew her bigotry without recourse.

With people like Twila, there will never be "equality" within our society, and put people like Jessie Jackson out of work.

I knocked up the police chief's daughter and had the friggen cops on my ass for almost 6 months on a daily basis.

What was your point again?

" have the nerve of this woman to even label me as a racist bigot is an insult to me, and she has tried to do this to me personally on SEVERAL occassions."

I have no idea who you are, do not know you personally and you don't know me. I have never called anyone a racist bigot.

"it makes me even more insulted that she can continue to spew her bigotry without recourse."

I am hoping that this is not some type of threat. But it sure sounds like it.


it- makes-me-feel-more-insulted-that-she-can-continue-to-spew-her-bigotry-without-recourse.

Yeah, Twila, I'm going to beat you up from that.

WTF is wrong with you people, and with that, I'm talking you and Paul Hem.

You guys do stuff on a regular basis to have people threaten to thump on you guys?

Nice try.

I'm IMPLYING that if "whitey" was bitching about "racial anything", I'd be dragged through the streets, but if a cute black grandmother can spew racist comments, no one holds her to account.


As I said, you see how difficult it is to discuss racial issues. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know this. Racial disharmony has a lot of emotion in it. Some people may call it passion. I suggest this as an alternative. We Americans have some very dangerous enemies out there who wish nothing more than we all die because we are infidels. Lets agree that everyone has a right to disagree. At the same time let us understand that this country will unite when those enemies make their moves regardless of race or gender. Lets take each person we meet and know one at a time and make no conclusion about them based on preconceived notions about the ethnic gruop they belong to, their gender or religion. We Americans are the best at being tolerant. Lets practice tolerance with good common sense. This will take work, but we are going to have to do it if we expect to repel our enemies when they attack us. I have met Twyla and have had some very interesting conversations with her. I will say this. I wish Twyla would express more patience with the rest of the world around her. If she does all of us will be more willing to listen to her point of view rather than we have to constantly defend ourselves when she speaks. When we are on the defensive we are always protecting our position or moving backwards. All of us want to move forward and improve things, not keep fighting over the same piece of dirt.

I wish,

Twila would answer the questions orignally posed as to why she feels there needs to be a "black party" yet never addressed why when their was one not only did it fail horribly but it also was the cause for more racial divides in this country than before it's existence.

I wish the Tigers would make the playoffs.

I wish UT would win a football game this year.

I wish the media would stop sensationalizing everything especially the deaths of our military members.

I have lots of wishes. Sometimes they come true sometimes they don't. From this wishlist I think the UT and Tigers wishes are most likely to come true.



If you are referring to the Black Panther Party you need to do your homework on what the Black Panther Party was. It certainly was not a black political party.

James Kirk,
The beauty of the internet is that everyone can remain anonymous and create whoever they want to be with a stroke of the keyboard and the click of a mouse. I could be whoever I wish to be on the Internet but I chose to be who I really am. That said, since I don't know who you really are, I can not for sure say that we have not had a conversation. But in knowing who I have conversations with, and unless you attend the same Mosque that I do or you are a member of the African American Parents' Association, the chances of you and I having an "interesting conversation" are almost nil. Not to say that it is not possible but again, I am so far out of the social circle aspect of Toledo that I could say that you and I having "interesting conversations" is almost an impossibility. Since there are two black adult people with the name Twyla and one black adult person named Twila, it could be that you have me mixed up with one of the other two people named Twila/Twyla.

James Kirk, maybe you have me mixed up with one of the other people with the same first name. Twila/Twyla. Because I have never talked to a James Kirk and while I do have senior moments, I really, really don't remember a James Kirk.

In comparing me to starling I think you are missing a component here. Starling has gone off on rants which to me is indicative of anger, whereas, I don't recall ever doing that.

Maybe a republican can answer this---why did the republican candidates skip out on the PBS debate on issues of special importance to

Because they don't have a clue what people of color's issues are. What they don't understand is that 99% of the issues people of color have are the same issues that whites have.

...jump all over you. :)

There is plenty of prejudice in the world, our country and our community and, while it's color of skin for many, it's not always about race.

While I don't deny that race is an issue to some, I don't have to accept the attitudes that promote it. Instead, I choose to focus on the issues.

No matter what the color of your skin, Toledoans pretty much want the same things: safe neighborhoods, good schools, a job that pays you what you're worth, a good home for your family, streets repaired, city services provided with competence and efficiency. There's no color distinction in these things.

What I don't like about representatives of the parties is when they start telling 'groups' what they need, instead of listening to them say what they want.

We White people need our own party. We could call it the "White" party which would address White issues.

We Asian people need our own party. We could call it the "Asian" party which would address Asian issues.

We Hispanic people need our own party. We could call it "La parte mexicana" which would address Mexican issues.

Are all the above examples radical racisms. You bet. I just wanted to illustrate how absurd your idea is purnhrt. Once again you show your racist idiology. You just don't get it! Your way of thinking actually does more to promote prejudice in this country then helping to eliminate it.

If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth. ~Japanese Proverb

I deal with a lot of people with accents; mostly southerners and Indians. I can tell you that accents get much thinker when they are around people of the same accents. One of the Indian guys here at work has almost no accent when you talk to him one on one, but thickens up considerable when we get him in a room with other Indians.

The same olds true to a few of the Texans and Okies we have at work. They have little or no accent when in northwest Ohio, but when you travel with them down south they suddenly get thick accents and start saying that's funny...

Here's an interesting comparison between George W. and the Black Panthers

Both have used the phrase " are either for us or against us" publicly.



purnhrt, here's an individual (Starling) who wants to engage you in dialogue about race issues, which you've constantly posted here, there, and everywhere as something Toledo desperately needs, and you totally blow her off. Please don't say it's "just a black thang."

Just to set the record straight, Purnhate is not an angry black man who wont answer an honest question, she's an angry black woman who wont answer and honest question.

The answer to everyone's question is simple. Everyone eventually gets screwed by the political parties even the rich and powerful. The rich and powerful most times don't get screwed nearly as much. If you are a minority or woman, the only time the political parties act like they care about you is during election years. Other than that, the parties could care less.

"what exactly are you looking for in a political party? What "Black" needs or issues are not being met by either?"

They sound legitimate to me. But whatever. You lost your credibility long ago.

Further, I'm concerned about the potential objectivity of such an article that uses such language as "the chilling Right Wing bent of Republicans" but doesn't have an equally condemning description of the 'extreme Left Wing bent of the Democrats.'

I agree with the rest of what you said, but not that. There's an important difference: the GOP is controlled by it's right wing. The religious conservatives and the neo-cons both have an important seat at the table.

The democratic party, however, is NOT controlled by its left wing.

And therein is why so often things dont get done. There are people just this stupid that hold elected office who would rather play word games than address the issues at hand.

there's racism in this country.

It's people like Twila here that incite the anger and disappears when the shit hits the fan.

She can't be held accountable because she is a racist.

You're a very ignorant black woman that really should spend some quality time understanding that "whitey" isn't the source of her angst, it's her being pissed she wasn't born white.

Twila, you're pathetic, you racist Jessie Jackson opportunistic loser.

Are you kidding? You really don't think that people perceive starling as being angry? Obviously you don't pay enough attention here. lol

that these "threatened" posters that resort to "insinuating comments are veiled threats", are just weak-minded people that feel threatened that their ignorance is about to be exposed.

Are you that s-t-u-p-i-d to perceive me threatening you now?

"it makes me even more insulted that she can continue to spew her bigotry without recourse."

I am hoping that this is not some type of threat. But it sure sounds like it.

Pretty easy to TRY to take it out of context, seeing you're reading for the Jessie Jackson Plays the Race Card playbook. But it's crystal clear, Twila, you can spew racist comments without being held to the same standards you'd have held me to should I had been the racist.

"I've felt alone for a while while dealing with her garbage, and now that I can see that it's not me with the other comments conserning her racist views, it makes me even more insulted that she can continue to spew her bigotry without recourse." means just that. Not being held to the same standard.

Yep, you just proved how stupid you are.

Unfortunately, I perceive Twyla as being angry, so am I. I will do what's necessary to alleviate that anger. Anger is bad Karma. It fogs up the mind and it is bad for my health. I could be using all that energy I am using to be angry for something else. That's the way I look at things. Also, I have never perceived starling02 as being angry, but very interactive.

How many times did you knock her up? Everyday? Do the police still hassle you? Do you wake up every morning and wonder what ignorant person is going to show their ass today just because they don't like the race of a person? According to my African American friends this is a constant thing anytime they are out in the world. They don't have to knock up the police chief's daughter. All they they have do is just mind their own business and someone will mistreat them because of race. I'm not exaggerating. I see this all the time.

Trust me. We've talked. And, my real name is James Kirk.

Don't most politicans do this? I can think of several issues that current candidates have flipped on..

Maggie Thurber for having the gut's to announce who you truly are, I dont agree with alot of your views but I will give credit when credit is do.

rescue me

When we were introduced I was introduced as Jimmy. No last name was given to you at the time.

...just speculating here ... because the GOP candidates don't look at color of skin when determining their position on issues that are, as James Kirk says, basically the same as most everyone else?

I don't know the answer to the question, Chris....but instead of asking local republicans to explain the actions of candidates, why don't you ask them directly? That way, you'd get their actual position on the question or issue instead of just speculation offered by those of us who've probably never even met these people...I'm sure they all issued press releases explaining their position on this...

I thought whites already had there own party... it's called the Republican party. :)

...I was born in Nashville and still have a bit of that southern twang. Hubby says it's more prominent when I'm angry, though I still say y'all, even typing it often on these types of boards.

You're right about the thicker accent when you're with others who already have it. However, despite the accent that readily returns whenever I go south or visit family, my grammar does not change...

you should give credit to the author. This is a total rip off of a poster I had hanging in my room. It also included communism, facism, etc. can't remember all of them, but it is a very good poster.

--These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will; in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. -Thomas Paine

I'm not looking for anything in a political party except to leave me alone. And, as far as my credibility is concerned your words are very hollow, my friend. Your words don't phase me one bit. It is you who will miss out on the wisdom I share. Its your choice.

...what color is the sky in your world?

control of one party from the perspective of a member of the other party is just that - a perspective.

We've had a similar discussion on Glass City Jungle...

But I offer this for your consideration. Many in the GOP see religious conservatives as just one portion of the people who occupy our big tent.

But, many in the GOP view and it's influence to be extreme and more left than most within the Dem. Party. As an example, even Hillary Clinton, while trying to defend General Petraeus as an honorable man, couldn't bring herself to condemn the ad MoveOn placed in the NYT. Credit when due - even Elizabeth Edwards did this.

I'm sure, given your own perspective, you'll say that MoveOn represents either a 'mainstream' view or just one view of the many within the Dem. party.

But back to the issue,...

It's not whether there is a "right wing bent of Republicans" but the use of the word 'chilling'. I doubt that the author will describe any similar type of 'bent' within the Democrat party with words such as 'chilling.'

Pick any adjective you'd like for the more extreme views within the Dem. party and I doubt you'd find the author using a term like she did for a 'bent' with the GOP - hence my concern about the author's objectivity and the introduction of her personal view about such 'bents.'


Well, that's an interesting way of putting things. I'll be honest - my immediate perception of starling was that she is an angry person, so far I have yet to change my mind on that.

(And that isn't meant to criticize or attack anyone as a person - being angry isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. Obviously there are occasions where anger is justified. But do I think that starling gives the perception of being an angry person here? Yep, sure do. I don't perceive her anger to be any different than purnhrt's just b/c starling happens to be white.)

Just wondered if anyone had heard anything about them skipping this...

sorry if you read me wrong. I hit the reply button under her post, but it appeared under yours.

Why should Hillary or anyone for that matter have to condemn an ad?

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it.

...a reporter asked her if she agreed with the ad or if she condemned it...while a lot of words came out of her mouth, she didn't answer the question...

It was just an example.

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