Casinos have paid over $1 billion in taxes and fees to Detroit

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I fully believe in having a Downtown Casino/hotel and a RiverBoat Casino. Cash Cows!!!!!!!!! Not to mention, decent jobs, Hot tourisim draw and of course..our own fun. Yes...there's always gonna be the extream Right that will hate the idea..which is odd, considering where they spend their vacations.

Seem to be against slots at horse tracks and so on.

People want to gamble and they do.

Look at the on-line sites and World Poker Tour. They are offering classes to gamble better.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

Right Religious. Doesn't matter anyway.... this city is stupid as evidenced by the votes yesterday

interesting that with all that money, has life in Motown really improved any?

Hopefully a group of native americans will successfully sue and win a portion of land of which to designate as a federal reservation and open a casino in the NW Ohio/SE Michigan area.

MikeyA

MikeyA

If an Ohio casino was Indian owned, then they'd have to allow smoking, right? Hell, we'd go, & often.

This is where the economy differences and overall size, along with poor management come in to play. In Toledo, that cash would go a whole lot further than it does in Detroit. The Detroit "needs" are lot larger and their problems are far more severe than ours. The massive size of their Auto losses are far more than ours. We had mostly smaller, parts ops here, they had more assembly losses.

If we had 2-3 casino's here, it would make a much larger difference in our local economy than it does in theirs. And look at it this way, they would be all but bankrupt without the casino's. That Billion just doesn't go as far there as it would here.

I have no doubt tho, if Carty is the Mayor at a time when a Casino comes in, it may well end up being the world's best Bike Path capitol. With plenty of fluff to go around ;-)

... and the customers come from where? Windsor has a casino, right? So what would we do to attract people from Canada? Detroit has a casino, right? So what would we do to attract people from Southeast Michigan? I guess we could give the casinos a 10 year tax abatement deal. That would get them to come here rather than to a population center like Detroit. Yes, sir, everyone should build a casino to beggar their neighbor.

The great thing about casinos is that instead of producing anything of value you just shift money around. And maybe we can have an extra tax to take care of the kids who come from families impoverished when some fool gambles away the families finances rather than just using gambling for "entertainment".

So people would come to Toledo just to gamble. Does Detroit get people from all over the U.S. who go there just to gamble? I know that right now my sister-in-law and her mother go to Detroit about once a month to gamble at that casino. I guess she would stay here to gamble. That's $200 a month right there. That's worth investing capital in a casino.

Old South End Broadway

The City may have to do some minimal consessions, but not a ton. Any tax abatement should come with heavy strings and be very short term.

There are always bad apples...but just becasue it's sometimes distructive, it doesn always shut down the business. For example, Toledo's claim on more "Adult" industries per capita than any locale around. "Adult" business's like porn and strippers are far more costly and distructive than casino's. There are "Addicts" in everything. You cannot control individual morality. Self control is an individual choice.

As for the draw..Toledo is prime in location. Sits in the junction of multiple interstates, on water, and the ease and expense of Toledo is superior to that of Detroit. The "regulars" that frequent casino's are from smaller towns and Detriot's size is alarming for many a grandmother who ventures there at their own peril. A closer, easier access situation would be a big draw. And if you take the $200 and multiply it by the hundreds of locals and potential thousands of folks statewide and the interstate traffic, that's a hefty sum. Casino's draw business, business travelers and employ hundreds if not thousands of people in one capacity or another. Casion's require feeder business's to supply the products of the trade so that's another draw. I don't know for sure, but if I were a betting man, I'd say there would be more positive than negitive from the installation of 1 or more casino's.

From http://www.casinowatch.org/what_casinos_dont_want/bus_families_subsidize...

Businesses are cannibalized by casinos.
.........."People will spend a tremendous amount of money at casinos, money that they would normally spend on buying a refrigerator or a new car. Local businesses will suffer because they'll lose customer dollars to the casino." Donald Trump
..........Casinos comp gamblers with free meals and free hotel rooms. www.casinowatch.org
.......... Hotel occupancy rates have not risen since the casinos opened. Restaurants in the city that did well before casinos kept their customers and added a few new ones, but those that weren't doing well were hurt, said Kristyn Sorensen, spokeswoman for the Michigan Restaurant Association.
..........A study conducted for the State of South Dakota found that, after casino gambling was legalized in 1989 within the town of Deadwood, business declined significantly at nearby restaurants, clothing stores, recreation services, business services, and auto dealers. www.ncalg.org
..........Atlantic City, NJ: (Gambling mecca of the East) Only about 10 percent of the businesses nearest to the casino locations in 1976 are still open today. Instead, just off the beach, there are dozens of pawn shops for losing gamblers to sell their jewelry for cash. www.ncalg.org
..........East St. Louis and Alton are no better off economically than they were when river boats came to town,...In fact, in each of these cases, existing businesses have been 'squeezed out' because persons who used to patronize those businesses no longer can afford the goods and services because they have lost their money at the river boat. Resident Bishop Chicago Area of The United Methodist Church, Why a Casino Would Be Bad for Chicago 5.21.04
..........Detroit: ..."there is no business spinoff, no restaurants that have done well as a result of casinos and no businesses that have done well,"... "They are self-standing, not designed to create any economic development for anybody but themselves." Trisia Arndt a Detroit lawyer/Detroit Free Press/ 7.1.04

http://www.buffalospree.com/spree/archives/2002_0102/010202CasinoDreams....

I looked closely at the casinos in two cities with very similar situations to Buffalo

It's a tough sell.... I have a few thoughts...

1. Somebody mentioned the World Poker Tour. Poker is game of skill, not a game of chance. Here is the test: Anybody in the know can name, say, the top 10 poker players in the US. Same for, say, Golf (skill), basketball (skill), etc. But can you name the top 10 slots players? The top 10 roulette players? The top 10 (non competition) blackjack players? (Competition blackjack adds rules and complexity that do add more elements of skill)

Poker is different than traditional casino gaming, and, in fact, poker rooms are new additions at most casinos.

2. I don't see much of an opportunity for a net-gain. What VALUE do casinos produce? As I'm sure others have mentioned, any money somebody spends gambling, is money they're NOT spending elsewhere: Clothing, Restaurants, and the like for the "reasonable" gambler, and Mortgages, Food, and the like for the "unreasonable" gambler.

3. Somebody mentioned addiction, then somebody else immediately retorted with some nonsense about "self control" and "morality"

Anybody that knows anything at all about addiction knows this is just nonsense. Many doctors are now recognizing Addiction as a medical disease, supported by things like actual brain scans that show that it's NOT a choice of morality or self control. It boils down to the "Go" part of the brain is ancient, the "Stop" part of the brain (that weighs risk/reward, provides caution) is a modern development. In addicts, the "Stop" part of the brain function is depressed and it's GO GO GO all the time. This is brain chemistry as simple as depression is brain chemistry. It's like saying somebody clinically depressed just lacks the "Will power" to be happy. Rubbish.

4. So the goal is that we import money into the city from surrounding cities. So then businesses in those cities fail. So then their workers look further and further outward, competing for Toledo jobs. This idea that we can import money from elsewhere to cure our ills, i think, is a little bit fantasy.

5. But I also believe that for people that are gambling anyway, why not get a slice of that action for our own general fund.

I'm pro gambling of every kind and likely gamble more than most people. I think it sucks that the Governor and AG are striking out so hard at ALL FORMS OF GAMBLING, like Skill Games. We all know that they are just working to protect the state's monopoly on gambling - the LOTTERY. The lottery, in all it's forms and methods, pays back only slightly more than 50% of the money people wager. Those are awful odds. The Skill Games in a saloon in South Toledo where I socialize pay out 91%. Those are good odds.

Poker is truly a game of skill, but Ohio Liquor Law specifies that poker is not allowed in a venue with a liquor license. I would enjoy playing poker in a multi-table "poker hall", even one without a liquor license, but that's illegal here too. Private club with poker games? ? Nope, they are illegal too. How depressing it is to be so oppressed.

Big Jim

Big Jim

was against it??1!!!? GIVE ME A BREAK. Almost the ENTIRE media bloc in OheilO, both printed and TV,
was against the idea-including the blade-also The Fink and most of toledo council. I'd HARDLY call that group right-wing.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Bike paths, Wi-Fi, Starbuck's, and smoker-free. That's the answer! Now we can all fart through silk as we watch things collapse.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

You may recall, as I said over at TT, I voted FOR gambling, and AGAINST the smoker ban. Other oHEILoans
saw it defferent than I. And then they wonder why the state is crumbling.

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

I once took a bus trip to the Windsor Casino from Port Clinton.

When they built the Detroit Casino's they predicted Casino Windsor and Screaming Eagle would fail. They haven't. The market for them is big enough to support more.

Potential customers would come from Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, and Ft Wayne. All areas easily accessible from Toledo via multiple forms of transportation.

That's forgetting that Toledo has a large contingency who currently gambles. Those who play the lottery, bingo, and goto Raceway park, are all highly potential customers.

MikeyA

MikeyA

*

We all know that they are just working to protect the state's monopoly on gambling - the LOTTERY.
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BINGO.
You got it, Jim.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

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