Looks like the bars and restaurants across the border in Michigan will lose their smoking advantage over Ohio

Michigan House committee approves smoking ban bill
Does this mean that the Lucas County bars and restaurants will get back the customers who went to Bedford, Lambertville, etc. in Michigan so they can smoke?

No votes yet

Illinois passed a ban today that includes all public areas.

"But the proposal still has a long way to go before it could become state law."........
Tracy Sabetta (sp) whined not long ago, about the fact that Michigan sent the smoking ban to 'committees to die', where, she said, it could languish for a good long time, or forever.
I'm not sure, but I seem to recall reading on a Michigan smokers' rights forum, that Michigan's laws are worded in such a way, that they can't be tampered with by higher govt. I would assume, at any rate - before any ban is passed, it'd go to a vote first. If not, then we really need to shed a tear for this country - facism will indeed have settled in rock hard.

I wonder what would happen, if ALL of Ohio's restaurants, bars, bowling allleys, bingo, VA & pool halls declared a mutiny, and just allowed smoking. As long as they have signs posted & ashtrays removed, they've complied with the law. It is not their job to enforce the ban (and they sure don't get paid to do so). I imagine at first there'd be a lot of reported violations, but how could the health dept. keep up? If a violation is reported, then the health dept is sent out in a day or two to check if somebody was smoking (How on earth do they prove that after the fact?????? It's all 'he said, she said'.). The cost to enforce a mutiny like this would be astronomical - they'd have to hire more help to inspect all the reported violations, and even then, be able to PROVE smoking occured, that the owner was aware of. (How can they site a bar or restaurant owner if somebody snuck a cigarette in the restroom? How is the owner supposed to know if that even occurred, or who did it?). I'm disqusted with all this ban nonsense. It was easy enough for people to exercise their freedom to choose to enter, or not enter. Not enough smoke free bars to suit ya? OPEN ONE. Talk is cheap - walk the walk, if you think it's so easy to make a smoke free place work.

Just a suggestion. And it'd require big bucks to turn the ban around - hard to find as big a bucks as Big Pharma & the Cancer Society had when they pushed the ban. No ashtray? That's easy, an empty can or bottle works (half an inch of liquid puts out butts, toss into the trash when you leave). This ban was poorly thought out & passed based upon bogus, propaganda hype. I'd just love to see some serious civil disobedience. Really, how could the health dept. handle mass mutiny against the ban? I'm really curious anyway about the fairness of these anonymous emailed or phoned in reported violations - there's already been a lot of fake reports. How on Earth does a health dept. inspector prove a violation occurred one or two days (or more - I've heard it can be a week or more) after the violation was reported? Especially when the person reporting it probably doesn't even know the violators name? The owner can cross his/her fingers & hope, but there's no way he/she can know what every patron is doing, if somebody's smoking in the restroom, or sneaking a drag in a back corner. And yet, it will be the owner who is fined - based on hearsay. By the time the inspector arrives, any evidence is long gone, if there even was evidence. I don't believe in bans of any kind. If something is declared to be illegal, that is different. So make tobacco illegal. Problem solved. But they won't ever do that - they want you to buy tobacco. This country makes too much money off of it to ban it entirely. Hell, Big Pharma & the Cancer Society especially don't want it banned.

Altoids Tins.
Great portable ashtrays, folks. ;^)

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

You two have much more faith in the cleanliness and respectfulness of many smokers then I do I guess. I've seen far too many butts littering the ground less then two feet from ashtrays to trust that there wouldn't be a mess left in their wake.

I still say working within the law is better then breaking it to make a point.

You've got a good point Starling, maybe the answer is to make tobacco illegal.

Bc too many cops smoke.

sherry - I don't go to bars.
ohiokat - they won't make tobacco illegal because there's too much money being made off of it. Hypocrites.
shane - I've been barreling longer than that. I've also seen a lot of non-smokers toss trash. Another fine example of how all the trash in the world is the fault of smokers. I do not litter. Period. I'm too worried about screwing up my karma by littering. And if my daughter's friends drop butts in our driveway, I call them on it. Seems to me that YOU'RE barreling off the deep end, with this obsessive need to blame all the worlds ills on smokers. I have also not ever lit up a cig in a non-smoking restaurant, and don't know any smokers who have. Smokers have always respected the law in non-smoking establishments (except for the rare exceptions, which you'll find in any segment of society). However, if I was in a designated smoking section of a restaurant, hell yes, I'd light up. Any non-smoker who's offended shouldn't be sitting in the smoking section anyway. I believe you about the time it may take for butts to biodegrade - however, I'd imagine that disposable diapers are higher on the trash list of trash that will be still sitting in landfills in 50 years. Funny how the smoke haters are so quick to lay trash blame on smokers, but never seem to mind the stench of dirty diapers with their plastic liners. So, I guess any parent who uses disposable diapers (or anybody who uses gas or oil) is supporting terrorism? You're an idiot. I'm not going to get into this with you shane, I still find you to be an obnoxious, smug little prick, with horrible manners & the most abrasive personality of anybody I've come in contact with.

Starling, Starling, Starling....DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. The number one rule of the web. That's why I like the format of SB better than TT-you can see WHO has posted, rather than just WHAT has been posted. I can just ignore their posts entirely here. When they begin to take over a thread at TT, I just leave it permanently. Their rabid hatred , smugness, and arrogance does nothing but breed hatred and resentment in return-which is great for our side.

;^)

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

dark - I know, I know.....but damn, he's annoying litte shit. (Must learn to count to ten & walk away, must learn to count to ten & walk away........)

*

Good article from another board:

Kamikaze

Click here to return to S

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

We need some civil disobedience here in Ohio. If a business owner has put up the signs & removed the ashtrays, he's done all he's required to do by law. It is not his job to enforce a smoking ban, nor is he being paid to do so. I would think that the health dept. has to be able to prove a violation even occurred. Hard to do when they don't even show up to inspect the reported violation for at least two days (often a week or more). If every business owner who gets a violation reported against them appeals that violation, it will cost govt. about $3,000. in court (that's the number I've been hearing). I don't think Ohio's govt. can afford the court costs for every violation in Ohio. Too many of Ohio businesses are rolling over & taking this ban lying down. Most of them have seen & read the shs studies that PROVE they are ALL bogus, and that there is NO risk of disease from shs. So I'm a bit surprised they aren't bucking this.

Some will go out of business, some won't. It's my belief the ones who are in trouble, or soon will be, knew it when the ban went in. When you're talking about a locally owned business, it's your very livelihood, so you'd think they would have put up more of a fight before the election, via money and ads.
It's difficult for me to feel sympathy.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

the two states as to how the entire Hospitality Industry in Michigan is fighting this, especially the Restaurant association. Up there, they got it put into law years ago that all hospitality venues were exempt from smoker bans unless state lawmakers decided otherwise. It can NOT beput to a vote on any ballot. In other words, small business up there has balls. They've beaten this back several times over the last 7-8 years. The Nazis want Michigan BADLY now-SOON-before the figures start to come in on the business lost by the F**keye state vs, business gained by Mich.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

I suppose the ashes, burn marks and cigarette butts all over the floor and tables since as you've pointed out As long as they have signs posted & ashtrays removed, they've complied with the law wouldn't be a dead give away that smokings been going on.
Unless of course the place burns down because of a cast away cigarette.

Whats wrong with just following the law and working in the legal ways to get the changes that you'd like to see?

What bars do you hang out at that doesn't allow smoking?

I've seen far too many butts littering the ground less then two feet from ashtrays

Why is it cig butts are not subject to littering laws?

I don't know where you heard that, but Granholm has said a number of times that she'd be happy to sign a smoking ban if only the legislature will send one to her desk.

Starling: Barreling off the deep end since 2006

LOL

You're probably right.

But as far as I'm concerned, it is littering and should be treated as such.

think they're a badass on the faceless internet. They wouldn't have the balls to say that shit to your face. Do what I do, and see who made the posts-if it's by a troll, don't even bother to read it. Good for your blood pressure. Let theirs go up when they're ignored. I used to take the bait too, but no more. The more they're ignored, the more attention they crave and the fouler and more smartass and insulting they become, just showing themselves to be assholes.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

I don't think anybody disagrees with you. It's a blight and it's all too common. I also see it as a testament to the nastiness of smoking: Even smokers don't want to be reminded of their repulsive habit.

I think the issue is that littering is never enforced, PERIOD. If I'm following a car that throws out their fast food wrappers, cups, etc, I make it a point to pull up next to them and remind them of what an asshole they're being. Usually people are thoroughly embarrassed at their behavior and don't even try to explain themselves.

This is just another example of smoking being bad for Ohio and bad for society. The average smoker just isn't a responsible citizen. The occasional smoker will dispose of their trash properly, but that's all too rare.

They're just a terribly selfish minority that has no qualms about making innocent citizens breath their disgusting, dirty air, look at and clean up their disgusting, dirty butts, and pay for their massive healthcare costs deriving from a disgusting and dirty habit.

You want freedom to smoke wherever you please? Then be responsible about it. Forcing your choice upon your fellow citizens is NOT responsible. And that was YOUR choice. As a group smokers could chose to be respectful of their surroundings. They could, for example, not light-up in a restaurant full of non-smokers. They could, for example, properly dispose of their trash. Etc.

They chose NOT to be responsible. So the rest of us, tired of being at the mercy of your habit when it comes to breathing clean air, decided that we didn't want any part of it anymore.

Simple as that.

The smoking ban was YOUR fault, smokers.

Anybody that thinks that Butts are easily biodegradable is just plain WRONG. Those "fibers" you see in the butts are not organic. They're plastic. And in case you haven't read much in the past 30 years or so, plastics are notoriously slow to break down.

And it also comes from oil.

In other words: When you smoke you support terrorism.

So go down to 7-11 and buy yourself a pack of Osamas and light one up. And remember: there are 20 cigs in a pack. 9/11? Add them together..... coincidence? I think not......

(crazy? perhaps. But no more so than you anti-ban wingnuts who cry "slippery slope! slippery slope! whaaa! whaaa! slippery slope!)

I used to think that you had a modicum of sense. Not anymore! You're just stupid, plain and simple.

First, give me a moment to cry my eyes out because some anonymous dude who hangs out on a website doesn't think I have "sense."

Second, take the time to read the last line of the post. It was purposeful hyperbole, bro. And no more outlandish than "Smoking ban!!! You're giving up everything!!! Say goodbye to your outdoor grill!!! SLIPPERY SLOPE!! SLIPPERY SLOPE!!"

The number one tool of those against the ban is hyperbole and conjecture, so I thought it apt that I, too, indulge.

Sorry, Shane... I haven't read some of the posts in a while and didn't detect the hyperbole. BUT read this: Does Smoking Cannabis Really Support Terrorism? It's been suggested anyway. http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/prohibition/prohibition_terrorism2.s...

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