Economic Problems in Cleveland area - Cleveland Indians & Browns attendance down

Just an update on some of the smoking ban damage in Ohio, for anybody who's curious. This from a writer in Cleveland:

My fellows smoker's...............the ban is only a few months old and the negative effect IS being felt in the Cleveland area, The Cleveland Indians, who were in first place the first half of the season have problems, their attendance is down, averaging 16-18K this year, down from the 20k per game last year with a lousy team.
If you subtract the highly discounted tickets they basically give away for promotions they are really averaging around 14-15k per game. At least a 12% drop in business, not counting their lost food or beer sales.

I understand the Cleveland Browns are having similar problems with many of their long time ticket buyers not renewing their tickets this year due to the ban.

The restaurant & bar business is down, places like Alphonso's @ Kamm's Corner has gone out of business and places like George's Restaurat in West Park where your had trouble finding a parking spot morning, noon or evening is basically empty, never more than 10 cars in their lot instead of the usual 25-35 and they now close early.

Main Street Bar & Grill in N. Royalton on a recent Saturday night had 2 folks in the restaurant, 1 in the bar and 6 of us smokers OUTSIDE in the patio. Before the ban on a Saturday night it was standing room only in
the bar, now they had 1 guy in it and I think he was the boyfriend of the barmaid.

The Warehouse & downtown restaurant & bar district's used to have "wall to wall" people, not now!

The City of Cleveland is going to "change the law" to suit Larry Flynn so he invests some money with his Hustler Strip Club in an attempt to bring some action into town.

None of this bad "economic news" get's in the paper or on TV. Wonder why?......"We" know why. .Don't we !

"They" tell us we're only 25% of the population and don't matter anymore, my friends, I'll bet us smoker's control the spending of 75% in our economy. Use your power wisely, don't "get mad....get even!"

My grandparent's went through a similar situation 90 years ago with alcohol & won, we will also!

No votes yet

Another business feels the pain.

From The Cincinnati Enquirer
Letters to the Editor

SMOKING BAN CUTS BUSINESS BY 70% AT CIGAR BAR

This past Friday I played my final Happy Hour gig at Anthony's Cigar
Bar and Grille in West Chester, Ohio. Since the smoking ban took
affect, business is down 70 percent, and they've been forced to cut
back on entertainment, and have laid off a number of their staff
{lcub}But hey, they got to enjoy a healthy, smoke free environment
before they lost their jobs!{rcub}. Way to protect the poor workers!

I think my bar maid was a little more worried about feeding her kids
this week, than whether or not she "might" get cancer {lcub}from a
place she chose to work{rcub} 20 years from now.

By the way...Where are all the non-smokers who claimed they would
patronize the bars once they were smoke free? I play out at a
different bar every night and have yet to meet a single one of you!

Oh well, things are great at Jefferson Hall across the river. I hope
you all can sleep knowing all the livelihoods you've affected.

B. Cushing, Delhi Township

The Cleveland Indians, who were in first place the first half of the season have problems, their attendance is down, averaging 16-18K this year, down from the 20k per game last year with a lousy team.

Where does this joker get his info? The Indians attendance is almost exactly the same as it was last year. They are averaging 24,640 per home game, not 16-18K. And any baseball fan knows that attendance figures will increase as the season goes go to the wire, if their team's in the pennant chase. Down 20K from one year? Do you know what that's like? That kind of drop would be unprecedented in ANY sport ALL-TIME.

At least a 12% drop in business

And how did this guy/girl get any baseball team to open their financial books? The players association has been begging them to do this for decades, to no avail.

This writer just didn't do his/her homework.

http://nookularoption.blogspot.com/

The link you

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=mlb...

As anyone can see, the current average home attendnace is almost exactly the same as the final average from last year.

Try, try again, Starling.

I had forgotten about the 'home' games in Milwaukee.

I just posted an article by a Cleveland resident - who I assumed knew more than I did about it. Chill.

my last sentence got cut off-the powers that be in OheilO, along with the stupidity of voters/citizens of said state, have screwed it beyond repair. And not just with smoker bans. So be it. Now they have to lie in the bed of filth they made.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Ya know dark, I think you may be right. I'm getting bored & weary of having darts thrown out at everything I post, if any of it doesn't quite jive with what they perceive what they think are the real truths; they will pick it apart just to pick, thinking they've won. They will ignore or refute any legitimate articles or facts if it conflicts with the shit they spew, but will cherry pick the smallest detail out of it all to argue about. I know the smoking bans are the kiss of death to towns that pass them, and that will become apparent in time. I'm fast getting to the point of just not caring - ban tobacco, alcohol, any sweetened or fattening food or beverage - ban advertising of any of it, for the kids, ya know - ban it all. I'm disqusted with what's happening to this entire country. If people don't care that ACS is a sham, and that the entire shs propaganda they've swallowed whole is a pack of lies, that there's something fundamentally wrong with the very idea that the Cancer Society is in bed with the p

esticide & pharmacutical companies - if they can't see or don't care that all of this is destroying everything that was free & good about this country - then why should I care? I am so sick of hearing it's 'for the damned kids' I could puke. Cig & cigar taxes - for the kids; bans on advertising - for the kids - give me a freaking break. Entire generations grew up with the same damned products, advertising, tobacco & alcohol & managed to produce healthy kids that lived to old age. The policy makers (or whoever it may be) of the last 10 years, are destroying this country - they are producing a generation that is more violent, disrepectful, rude, foul mouthed than any generation in the history of our country. Their kids are growing up to be as bad, or worse - prissy, sissy kids who God forbid may see a sweetened cereal, tobacco or alcohol ad - or heavens, a person actually smoking. Less people smoke now than they did 20 years ago, and yet there's more cases of cancer than ever - but geez, lets blame it all on shs, because that's easy. I'm to the point I really don't even care what happens to this country. As far as I'm concerned, it's already half way down the toilet, or farther. Give it to the illegals.

For what it's worth - that article was from a Cleveland resident.

I honestly don't see where it got personal. They refuted the post you made. You posted an article that you found interesting. Other posters here posted their thoughts/ideas. Isn't that the way its supposed to work?
When no one responded to the post about the ACS you made a post chiding them for not responding, then when they do, you complain because they "throw darts " at your posts.
Which is it that you want?

I haven't noticed resturants having any trouble since the smoking ban. I can't say anything about bars since I don't go out to them.
For the record, before anyone trys to jump down my throat. I never said/thought/advocated a smoking ban in bars/bingo halls/Vet Halls. I certainly wouldn't have applied it to something like a cigar bar.

As for the sport attendance issues. I don't follow sports so I wouldn't know. Although I would think a stadium would have the right to ban smoking if it wanted to wether it was covered in the ban or not. Isn't that what you've suggested Darksied? To let the business decide?

Outside or not, I think its a decent idea, because there are more then a few smokers out there who just don't give a flying rats ass and will flick their ashes all over. A recent trip to the Speedway was marred by the inconsiderate asses raining ash down on us because they couldn't be bothered to pay attention to where they flicked their ash.

ohiokat - I did not take it personally, I've just come to the realization that posting articles that in anyway may conflict with the pro smoking ban mindset are futile, because people will believe what they want to believe & no amount of studies or whatever is going to make them believe otherwise. They think bans are good things? Then go at it. I personally believe that bans go against everything good this country stood for. We have parents trying to ban advertising of pre sweetened cereals, alcohol, because of 'the children' - and yet, we all grew up with these same products & ads, and yet - our parents knew how to say "No", and simply didn't buy it. I'm just tired of hearing the same old arguments that if little Timmy sees people smoking or drinking, he will want to do it too. My parents didn't smoke, and yet all four of their kids do. Only one of my three kids smoke. So that's a pathetic arguement to me. Got sidetracked here, which I tend to do & I apologise.

I have just concluded I guess, that we are all but specks in this world, and everybody has opinions - so my, or anybody else's opinion really doesn't count for much anyway - not likely to make a difference or change the world. I grew up believing our country was the best in the world, as all of you did. But what has been happening to this country in the last 10 years saddens me, and I'm afraid it's just gone past the point of no return. When they passed smoking bans & stripped the rights of private business owners, the masses were 'ok' with that - I lost more faith in this country. When they do the same with alcohol, banning advertising or whatever will be next on the list to ban - the masses will be "ok" with it. That much is clear. A thread about a ban about grilling outside after 8 pm actually produced somebody thinking it may be a decent idea. The masses are easily led, and gullible to boot. Like the lemmings who died in the making of a Disney movie - so will this country die. Bad analogy, but that's how I feel anymore. You don't see that bans have hurt the restaurants? You aren't looking, or haven't talked to the smaller, non-chain restaurant owners. You go out to eat on a good night at a restaurant & presume that couple of hours speaks to how well it's doing overall. I could easily post dozens of threads & articles that talk about how the smoking ban is killing business - with links & names of owners to prove it. But there's really no point to going through the effort to do so, because the pro ban people have blinders on to all of it. They see what they want to see. They 'may' want to eat out at a restaurant without having to smell shs, so they ban it in all restaurants, just in case they may want to go there - to hell with the private business owners rights.

That said - I've wasted too much time on all of this. My little efforts won't make any difference in the long run anyway. Too many pro ban people seem to be just fine with who pushes & profits from the bans; just fine with who they're in bed with; who controls who & what. I could post the lineage that connects the cancer & lung societies, WHO, the surgeon general, etc. to big pharma, pesticide companies, judges & lawyers making big bucks on all of it, cancer cures that won't see the light of day & why - hell, I've already done a lot of that. But it's clear to me that pro ban people are really "ok" with all of that. It wouldn't make any difference what I posted here or on toledotalks about any of this - if the masses are "Ok" with this country going to hell, freedoms being taken away, ban this & that mindsets, then nothing I post will alter their thinking. I have better things to do with my time.

Simply put: The changes I have seen in this country in the last 10 years has been disturbing. The changes I have seen in the last 5 years, confirms to me that it will never be the great country it used to be, because the masses are "Ok" with it. In the last 10 years in this country, there is more violence, ban mentality, freedoms stripped, kids being raised with no consequences or respect, than I've seen in my entire life. We're giving this country away to illegals. Child molesters & white collar criminals walk away, and yet our country has the highest per capita of any country of people in prison. Our government is corrupt - hell, even Toledo can't stop in fighting. I get pounced on when I post anything related to the smoking ban, and yet there are constant threads bitching about TPS or Carty. They tell kids they can do anything if they put their minds to it - but that's also a lie. You can't run for president unless you're wealthy & have the right connections. How much justice you get depends on how much you want to spend for a lawyer.

My point I guess, is that all the people for the last 10 years in this country who pushed for bans, stripped freedoms, they took away the rights of schools even to discipline (God forbid the parent will sue) - all of it - whoever helped to create these changes (in the name of the children) - are responsible (as I see it) for the pathetic state this country is in. This country was doing great - up until about 20 years ago, mainly the last 10 years. I honestly don't know what put that last shovel of dirt in America's grave - but it's gone, and whoever was empowered enough to create the changes of the last 10 -20 years, is responsible. I know that this is a long, probably not entirely coherent rant - that is off thread a lot. I'm just disqusted with what the masses seem to think is 'ok'. As long as they don't have to smell shs, & can blame all life's ills & diseases on it, they're happy enough - why care about the creepiness that lies beneath it all?

that second one about the cigar bar before-also, I have seen on MANY OheilO blogs where season-ticket holders are telling them to shove it (these stadiums are OUTSIDE, and have NOTHING to do with the statewide ban)up their ass and getting their money back. Ah, well-screw it , the state can afford it, I guess, or they wouldn't be continuing with outside bans,eh?. I'm to the point where I don't even care what happens to the state economy any more, due to the stupidity of both the politicians and the average citizen/ voter.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Not only that McCaskey (you'll love this)....but as any Indians' fan would know, their first 3 "home" games were played in Milwaukee this year due to horrible weather in Cleveland. As you might imagine, Cleveland didn't draw as well in Milwaukee. In fact, if you take away those 3 "home" games, Cleveland's attendance is up by almost 700/game compared to 2006.

http://nookularoption.blogspot.com/

And I sure wish you'd stop feeding them, as I have. Don't talk to them directly-the only reason they come here is to insult others, mock, be condesending,and feel important. I will always laugh at them for calling you and I and some others 'obsessed' with it, yet-there they are -in EVERY smoker thread-insulting, calling you names, and mocking you-just drawn to those same threads they claim to despise like moths to a flame, otherwise they couldn't laugh at you, mock you, or insult you. Just ignoring the thread would be impossible for them. So I would call that 'obsessed' myself. Incidentally,Star, I find it absolutely great that cleveland is worse off than toledo. I hope the entire state joins them in the toilet soon.

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

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