Would you donate money to a local Non-Profit dedicated to beautifying the city with plants, trees, flowers, artsy stuff, etc....

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I'm curious, since Carty received so much slack over $39,000 worth of flowers, would YOU donate (time, resources, money) to a local Non-Profit group dedicating to beautifying Toledo with flowers, plants, trees, art sculptures, etc?

I'd say no, I'm apparently one of the few people who thinks it's the city's job to beautify city property and find the expense necessary.

...no - but only because we already support an organization that promotes gardens, etc...

If, however, the organization we support were to 'adopt' one of the areas of the city, we'd participate in that...

I've donated to a lot of (only) local causes/charities every year for decades, but the only ones I donate to now (or ever again) are the Disabled Vets, Diabled Firemen. I just donated to a youth program for the Police for probably the last time. I decided to stop donating money to any Toledo or Ohio cause when they started a facist state, stooping to use children as bait. The same, old, tired song, I know - and I agree, hard to connect the dots to make sense maybe. But I"m just so disqusted with this state/country right now I don't care if it goes to weeds. Toledo used to be a thriving, booming town until the 80's - 90's, and was beginning to look like it may have a re-birth. But Toledo/Ohio has one of the highest unemployment, foreclosure, bankrupsy rates in the country -somebody told me the welfare rate was sky high as well. So what does Toledo & Ohio DO? They pass a ban that will destroy more small businesses - when they should be doing everything in their power to help them stay in business. This state has made a fortune off of tobacco taxes, only to treat the smokers like second class citizens. I won't donate a dime to pretty up this town. Why plant flowers when the foreclosures, unemploymemt & bankrupsy (and welfare) rates will cripple this city/state? I feel about the $39,000 that Carty spent for flowers about the same way I feel about money I donated to the cancer & lung society (and United Way). Didn't go for what they said it would go for, and the flower money would have been better spent.

And I already have donated 'artsy stuff' to Toledo. I made the mirrored frog for Solid Waste Management that they use for recycling promotions, & the green glass frog that Pilkington donated to the Children's library in the Downtown Library. My 'payment' for those frogs was eaten up in glass & supplies, to say nothing of the 16+ hour days in the garage making them. And what happened to them? Parents who don't supervise their brats kept breaking off the glass butterfly on the frog's knee & ripping off the top of the septor, so many times I stopped replacing them. And God knows where the Solid Waste Mgmt has the other frog stored. My 'donation' equaled a couple of thousand dollars, not counting time & labor & sweat. They could remove my name from the plaques - I don't care. What I care about is that it was pretty much for naught. Won't do it again for flowers.

...when it's higher than the median household income in Toledo.

Flowers are nice - but they are a luxury and not a necessity. And we shouldn't be spending money on flowers when we've got necessities going unmet (new police cars, anyone?). But we've been down that road before...and don't need to travel it again.

And while I disagree with Junta about our tax dollars becoming the government's money (yes, we've been down that road, too), I do agree with his position that we should be paying the least taxes to the federal government, a bit more to state and the most to our local government.

However...may I modify the question? If Toledo government said it wasn't going to spend any money "beautifying" our entranceways (excluding routine maintenance like lawn mowing and tree trimming) AND had only MINOR restrictions on what could be planted (like safety issues like size of plants and distance from road, etc...) AND asked companies, neighborhoods, etc.. to adopt an area - like the adopt-a-highway program - do you think citizens/organizations/companies would step up to the plate?

I ask this because a couple of people I've talked to said 'why should I do that when they're already spending my tax dollars to do it?' (yes, junta - "my" tax dollars - lol)

Additionally, out here in the Point, many people are upset that AWT gets so much attention but nothing along Summit Street seems to 'qualify' for beautification. Summit Street is as much an 'entranceway' to the city as AWT - and Summit Street is a connector to another state - not just another city within the county... so....

It's hard to 'get over' the smoking ban when it was based on lies & propaganda. I do realize that it passed because too many people assumed it'd 'never happen here' & didn't get off their asses to vote - and that IS why it passed (if you look at the number of those who voted). Just on one smoker's rights website alone - they did a poll, of the 300 members, only 19 said they voted. The rest assumed 'it'd never happen here'. And Toledo did pass a smoking ban prior to the Ohio ban. I also have to beg to differ with you that business hasn't suffered. IF that were true, then why is so much money being spent on radio advertising spots (and print) telling the non-smokers that 'we're still as much fun as ever, so come on over'. Because the non-smokers are NOT picking up the slack left when the smokers left. IF you doubt ban damage, go to ohiosmokersrights@yahoo.com to check it out for yourself. While you're there, check the files (or whereever they put them) for other smoker's rights groups & sites that are loaded with this information. But no, I don't blame Toledo for this ban - I blame the lazy voters. However, I DO blame Toledo for the original ban. And I would wager, that if it got put on the ballot again, it'd never pass again. People were duped with mis-information (or MISSING information), whether you believe it or not. Go to Toledotalk.com & browse the archives for the thread "follow the money". Then, connect the dots to Judge Cain/Maryhaven/Columbus/appeals.

This week the Secretary of State will be approving the wording of a petition to amend the smoking ban to allow smoking in private clubs, bowling centers after 6:00 and establishments with liquor licenses that derive less than 10% of their gross sales from food sold for on-premis consumption.

I think most people will agree that this amendment will make the law that voters approved more sensible.

Big Jim

sorry the last comments was way off thread.

Big Jim

The city was in better shape, overall, as in more employment, etc. Flowers and art sculptures are for cities that are stable and here are more fluff than anything else. Sure the medians and entry ways have flowers but if one goes a few blocks into the neighborhoods, we see boarded up buildings, boarded and decaying houses.

I wonder how many businesses or people would decide to set up shop here or move here based on flower gardens.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

As am I, however, I thought it would be an appropriate question that if so many people are up in arms about Carty using a measly $39,000 of taxpayer money on flowers, then would they donate to a Non Profit where its' their decision to donate. Obviously, its' not an interest to people to cleanup the gritty look of Toledo in comparison to the 'burbs.

I, with you, also tend to think its' the city's job to maintain the upkeep of city property, including flowers, trees, etc.

Get over the smoking ban starling, really, you need to. The law is the law is the law is the law.

They pass a ban that will destroy more small businesses - when they should be doing everything in their power to help them stay in business."

Sorry sister, but what ban is that? Your not referring to the citizen-lead smoking ban now are you? You did see citizen-lead right? Wait, Ohio voters voted for that? Not that I agree with the stance, but don't try pinning that one on Toledo.

Oh, and I was downtown last night at a couple of bars. Business was booming at the Blarney, Tony Packos, Durty Burd, the Docks, Spaghetti Warehouse, HomeSlice, etc. Despite that I think the smoking ban blows, I haven't seen that dramatic of a loss here in Toledo.

"However...may I modify the question? If Toledo government said it wasn't going to spend any money "beautifying" our entranceways (excluding routine maintenance like lawn mowing and tree trimming) AND had only MINOR restrictions on what could be planted (like safety issues like size of plants and distance from road, etc...) AND asked companies, neighborhoods, etc.. to adopt an area - like the adopt-a-highway program - do you think citizens/organizations/companies would step up to the plate?"

Certainly, thats what I was getting at and obviously failed to put out there. If the money for beautification WASN'T coming from the city, and a local Non-Profit were to adopt areas of city property to help beautify it with monies, would you. But if its' not the government, and no one wants to support a non-profit group, then how do you expect anything different from Toledo if no one wants to help improve it? Beautification is a luxury, sure, but for some its' a requirement for residence -- who wants to live in a unkempt, dilapidated city? Like I said, bike paths are used extensively here in Sylvania. To some, access to things like those are a requirement. Its' a quality of life issue.

So because certain people didn't turn out to vote, the law is bad? What's the solution to that problem? Should we fine people if they don't vote? Sounds pretty outrageous to me.

about it, Jim, it was sidetracked long ago LOL

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

"I wonder how many businesses or people would decide to set up shop here or move here based on flower gardens."

Well, for me (and I am moving to Toledo in the next two months from Sylvania) one stipulation is access to bike paths. In Sylvania there is an abundance of bike paths available. Good on Carty for pushing for the same. Its' a quality of life issue. Same goes for flowers. Driving through Columbus, it looks so nice and clean with beautiful landscape and such, and sure its' the capital of Ohio, but its' still being funded by the City of Columbus -- which by the way is booming. Flower gardens aren't a deal breaker in getting business here, but it sure is a good start in moving away from the gritty industrial look that Toledo has now.

a measly $39,000 of taxpayer money!??! of course, it's not your taxpayer money, since you live in sylvania. anyhow, i wonder if you think the budget issues are "measly" as well.

as to the donation issue, i would not donate money to a local non-profit to beautify city property. just actually what are my tax dollars doing? what are they for? if the city were not in such a financial mess, we wouldn't need to donate and/ or the measly $39,000 may not be such an issue.

your question...But I do think people/orgs/bus. would step up...maybe not right away because there would be a transition period. Additionally, although we already support an organization that does this, I would donate my time if our neighborhood or other similar organization decided to 'adopt-a-garden' ... but most organizations looked at the current city rules for adoption and just rolled their eyes at the bureaucracy created...they obviously didn't think 'how do we make this easy for someone to do'...

The law is an ass.

That's what they used to say about slavery and some things in Nazi germany, too. SILENCE IS NO LONGER AN OPTION (Thank you, Jane Fonda, for that slogan!).

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

JR already broke it down on the TT board-yes, the majority of toledoans (who bothered to vote) DID vote for the smoker ban, sorry.

And those places you're mentioning?
1). Yuppie hangouts.
2). It's 90 degrees outside. I'll look at things next winter when wind chills are back.
It was NOT enforced the first winter-they were still busy writing a law after it was voted on.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

people should be fined if they don't vote. but that's another story. The answer is to try to get the law changed.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Wholesaler, since when is a $12 million deficit a financial mess for a government? While it's certainly not desirable, to call it a mess is ridiculous. I don't here people getting so angry about the state or federal governments' much significantly larger deficits receiving such criticism.

And why do people call it "[their] taxpayer money." It's the government's money, not yours. If you can trace one of your dollars to government spending, I will be thoroughly impressed. How do you how know the money you agreed to pay the government through your elected officials for their services is being spent? It's not your money, it's theirs. If you don't like it, elect new people to lower taxes. Once it's in their hands, they can spend it how they like.

"it's not your taxpayer money, since you live in sylvania. anyhow, i wonder if you think the budget issues are "measly" as well."

No, its' not my taxpayer money that goes to Toledo's bike paths (at the moment), but its' my taxpayer money that go to spending a whole lot more on Sylvania's Park and Recreation that goes toward the many more bikes in Sylvania than in Toledo. And you know what, I'm glad and I'm thinking most in Sylvania are as well, because they get a hell of a lot of use. At any given time you'll see plenty of people running, riding bikes, or rollerblading on the Sylvania-UT Trail, the bike path from Centennial Quarry to Pacesetter Park, the bike paths alonside Erie street, etc. Its' a quality of life issue, and certainly people want it. Why again are the 'burbs booming and not Toledo? Its' not because of high taxes, the 'burbs cost more. Sure, it may be some of the policies, but I'll bet the downtrodden, gritty look contributes to that as well. What's wrong with a little facelift?

It seems to me like some people really just WANT to see the city fall down on its' knees and will do nothing to help raise it back up. Don't blame it on the government, the citizens are just as much at fault. DO SOMETHING.

I'm looking around the city's website right now, but in a nutshell, do you know what is required?

EDIT: Wow, obviously I haven't been to the city website in a while. On the right hand side there is a special link specifically for this. :)

Uh, you are still a moron. "the majority of toledoans (who bothered to vote) DID vote for the smoker ban, sorry." -- You said it yourself, the VOTERS voted for the ban, that has NOTHING to do with the City of Toledo. Politicians didn't enforce it on you, your neighbors did.

$12 million...$18 million...what's the big deal, huh? i'll tell you what is ridiculous....your nonchalant attitude toward the budget MESS. we'll see if you have the same temperament when they create some new taxes/ "fees" next year. regardless, some people may not get as angry at state and federal budget issues, but that is because they're imbeciles.

i don't necessarily disagree with you about the level of criticism the state and federal govt's receive for their budget situations. that hardly makes it ok. honestly, i don't think people look at state and federal monies as being their own.

for example, when discussion govt programs, i often hear acceptance because it's a state or federal program. people may not look at it as being "their" taxpayer money unless it's local.

I try to have a conversation, and it always goes back to personal attacks and name-calling with some of you,so shove it yourself. All oHEILo politicians are guilty as well, because they refused to find a set of BALLS to pass a statewide smoking law with some sense to it-can't dare piss off those rabid smoker-haters, you know.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

So presumably, the majority of what you pay in taxes goes to the feds, second the state, and third the city. Yet, you're more worried about the city than the other two entities. My attitude is not nonchalant, as you say. My attitude is that everybody's priorities are screwed up. My attitude is that most of our tax dollars should go local, not federal or state. My attitude is that we are more served by the local government than both the state and the feds combined, yet we pay the least to the locals. My attitude is that it is outrageous that people get pissed about local spending, but not state or federal spending. So that's my attitude. I want flowers, I want bikepaths, I want showers, I want perks for our local government workers, and I want unlimited trash pick-up. Consider your tax rates and who you pay what to, and then come back to me. I can assure you, your Toledo rate is very low. The other local taxes you pay, property taxes, those are county taxes. Perhaps a change in the law is needed. But please, spear me your nonsense.

"I try to have a conversation, and it always goes back to personal attacks and name-calling with some of you,so shove it yourself."

EDIT: Alright, fine, I am a jackass. Sorry for the name calling, however, it is frustrating when this issue gets discussed and discussed and discussed, yet, the blame goes in the other direction. THE ONLY PEOPLE TO BLAME FOR THE BAN IS OURSELVES. And laws aren't set in stone, if avolt, you, and delaney want to get together to overturn it, you'll be doing so with my support.

"All oHEILo politicians are guilty as well, because they refused to find a set of BALLS to pass a statewide smoking law with some sense to it-can't dare piss off those rabid smoker-haters, you know."

Then, the anti-government people would be jumping up and down calling foul because then its' a matter of politicians thinking they know whats better for you than you do. So which is it? Do you want politicians controlling what you do or would you like to have a say? I'm all for smoking in bars and what have you, but the people voted, and thats the way it should be. If its' something people are passionate about, bring it back for a vote. Laws can be repealed, changed, what have you. The anti-smokers can push, push, push. So push back and if its' meant to be, you'll win.