Who do you hope the TPS board picks to fill the empty position on the school board?

No votes yet

speak for all students? The sense that I get from her is that she advocates for Point Place children and no others. To be on the school board all children should be treated equally.

It is my understanding also that Point Place students in elementary school do not attend public school after sixth grade. They either go private, parochial, charter and even out of the state (Michigan)to avoid the public Junior High School(Leverette) and the public High School(Woodward). If this is true, how long has this been going on? Is there a culture of non inclusiveness in Point Place? I personally have no problem with people wanting their own neighborhood schools but Leverette and Woodward are the neighborhood schools for Edgewater and Ottawa River.

I remember when the Point Place Community begged the school board to make their schools k-8 to avoid their children going to Leverette for Junior High. Is this the case?. Because if it is I would have some serious issues with Ms. Sobecki being on the school board.. If she is going to be the cheerleader for kids she needs to include all kids. If Leverette and Woodward are good enough for some kids (according to Ms. Sobecki) it should be good enough for Point Place kids.

But Woodward and Leverette are so called "bad schools" as they both are on academic watch or emergency and have been long enough for students attending these schools to qualify for the Ed Choice voucher.

Which high school or junior high school is in the Point Place community?

It would be great if Edgewater and Ottawa River would be replicated in other schools in the district that are not doing so well.

1. The suggestion that the huge majority of Ottawa River and Edgewater students don't go to Leverette and Woodward is flat out wrong. It happens. It happens regularly. But it's far from the norm.

I just did a
very unscientific survey. I checked the addresses of students attending Woodward and Leverette. I didn't know the zip code of Point Place but after looking at the addresses I assumed that 43611 is the zip code of most Point Place residents. If I am wrong please correct me.

Anyway, Leverette has out of 543 students 131 students with the zip code of 43611 and 23 students living on streets with numbers, which I believe are Point Place addresses.

Woodward has 911 students and 46 of those students live on numbered streets, which I believe are Point Place addresses.

Edgewater has 242 students and almost all of them live on numbered streets, which I believe are Point Place addresses. Ottawa River has 322 students and likewise almost all of them live on numbered streets, which I believe are Point Place addresses.

While this survey is quite unscientific, it would not take a rocket scientist to figure out that after elementary school, Point Place students do not attend the public Junior High school, Leverette, or the High school (Woodward) in their feeder pattern .

I wouldn't send my child from a good school like Ottawa River to a bad school like Leverette either. But don't pretend that more than the majority of students from the Point don't attend Leverette or Woodward. It is the norm!

In order for Lisa Sobecki to represent all students she is going to have to have a major attitude change and come out of her cocoon and join the rest of us.

Where is your youngest sister going to school now as a seventh grader? Leverette is for 7th and 8th graders.

What high school did you graduate from?

No harm no foul on what Point Place residents do with their children after elementary school. As stated I wouldn't send my child to Leverette or Woodward either given a choice of a good school. They are both on either academic emergency or watch and have been for years.

My feelings are that the culture of Point Place resident (Lisa Sobecki) would not lend a voice to all students that she would be asked to represent if chosen to be on the school board.

She does not have IMHO a world view of children, just the ones in the "Point" who no longer attend the public school system after elementary.

I guess it is possible but I could not see 90% of Ottawa River and Edgewater students being given an out of district to attend other TPS schools. That would be like 90% Glenwood and Fulton Elementary students being given out of district passes to Deveaux and Start, when their schools would be Robinson and Scott.

Public schools are just that, public. Information including student information is public unless a parent opts out. Every year the school system gives the parent or should give the parent the opportunity to opt out of having their childs information in the public domain. Even with that, there is still information that can be released

Unless you have opted out your childs information is public.

It is amazing to me how little parents know about the public school system.

I don't think you can call a school and find out if student x attends there and their address and phone number but you can request a student directory from any or all schools. This would list: name, birthdate, address, phone number, parent's names, zip codes, unless the parent opts out and then I think you may only get the students name.

The information coming out of Point Place school is very interesting. It's like its own little enclave. Almost like Washington local. A school system within a school system.

The issue in Point Place reminds me of the way the southern states handled integration and the educational system. The white parents got together and after a certain age they send their children to private schools. That practice continues today.

No that is not what I said at all. Where would you get that idea from? What I said was, much like Point Place, after integration, white parents in the southern states formed schools so that their children would not have to go to the integrated schools.

I did not say that as a racist statement. That is a fact. Why you would call that a racist statement? If I thought my neighborhood school was inferior whatever the reason, I would find an alternative solution, be it, charter, private, parochial or homeschool for my child.

My parents sent me to a catholic school back in the 50's because the public school system was not what they wanted for me. Did that make them racist?

When an entire area of a city's children go to public elementary school and then the children do not go on to Junior High or High School in the same area I would question why that happens.

I never said Point Place parents were racist. I am sure that they want what is best for their children, much the same as I want for mine.

"The issue in Point Place reminds me of the way the southern states handled integration and the educational system. The white parents got together and after a certain age they send their children to private schools. That practice continues today."

Alright, fine, historically that may have been fact in southern states during those times, but how else am I supposed to read this as not calling the community racist when you say "That practice continues today."? Point Place parents get together and decide to send their children to private schools to avoid integrating with blacks? Wouldn't that be a form of racism? So are you calling the Point Place community racist?

Thats fine if you didn't mean that, but if you didn't, I'd clarify.

It is amazing how I can post anything and it will immediately be taken as a racist statement. The facts speak for themselves. Point Place parents do not send their children to public school after elementary school. That is quite obvious, why would you ALL make that a racist complaint?

for having an opinion. Excuse me for making assumptions about Point Place parents wanting what is best for their children, much like all parents.

But I still have a concern that Lisa Sobecki will not advocate for all children just the special nterest students of Point Place.

Perhaps we should judge the candidates by their positions rather than where they live. If I gave the impression that I am faulting Ms. Sobecki because of where she lives I am sorry for that also. But I still say that I feel that she will not be a good candidate for all students because of a mindset that is set only on Point Place students.

A few weeks ago I had asked her to intervene in a situation that involved other TPS schools. I asked because she is the parent coordinator chair whose duties are to advise the superintendent on issues that affect the school system.

This situation was so objectionable to the welfare of students that I was looking for a way to help these students. Since the organization that I belong to(African American Parents' Association) has no power to make changes for students because we are not ever listened to by anyone in the administration, I asked that she intervene. Since she is running for office and has the Democratic endorsement and is the chair of the Parent Coordinators, I asked that she intervene.

I thought that by she taking action that there was a good chance for a bridge to my community. Instead she gave the issue to Crystal Ellis and I have heard nothing from her or him since. School is out and I am sure that the practice that Is affecting children in my community will continue into next year.

I don't think that was too much to ask of her. I have asked other candidates to intervene on the behalf of students and they jumped right in worked hard to get a particular issue solved.

I will give more details but first I guess everyone should know that I advocate for all children. AAPA has represented white children, hispanic, asian children as well as black children. Our motto is that we are "unashamedly for children." We have never made a distinction between who we help as far as the race or ethnicity or disability of the child.

You Say:
How would YOU react if I said Jack Ford isn't qualified because he won't be interested in helping white kids succeed?

I say:
MY problem with Jack Ford is that he would not be interested in helping black kids succeed.

Why would you ask me about Jack Ford? Because he is black? Some things transcend race.

So what does where Jack Ford live have to do with white kids? Now you are really confusing me.

Reading thru the postings, I think it is Maggie who brings up the idea of considering the real numbers. That is something that TPS really should do across the district. 1) Deteremine the exact number of school age students in every school area. That would give us the actual target market or maximum number of students we should attempt to reach. We should then work that number backwards by determinng the actual number enrolled and work diligently to determine why the other school aged students have not considered TPS. 2) We understand that some will attend private or religious schools but we have the responsibility to learn why even one student would not want to enroll in their local public school and then we need to build on improving whatever that research reveals. Whether those improvements are with the subjects taught, hours of attendance, customer service issues etc.

We know that for the last 5-6 years we have lost over 7000 students across the district. They are going somewhere even with families migrating out of Toledo.

In regards to the PP schools. I'm not sure of the total history but at one point in time there was a PP Jr. High and Sr. High - am I correct about that? When parents came to the board during the discussions of the school closings, one of the pushes was for Edgewater to be transformed to a K-8. I believe we agreed to do that eventually but the date of that transition esacape me at the moment. It was portrayed to the board that if we continued 2 additional grades, we would keep those students who leave the system at the end of the 6th grade either by moving outside the TPS district, attending Michigan schools just across the boarder or some attend Washington Local and other catholic schools their parents choose for them. In fact I did a straw pool at my office last week. Of 10 individuals in my immediate area, only 4 of us lived within Toledo. 2 actually lived in the Springfield district but with a Toledo address and the other 2 (myself and one other person) lived within the TPS district. The concensus was that TPS elementary schools are fine because parents have a chance to become involved and engaged with their child's education but sending a child to a TPS jr. high or sr. high was out of the question. If that's the perception and/or reality, then TPS will continue to have financial challenges year after year unless we do something differently to address our issues and work together to keep and recruit students at these levels.

What TPS needs to do is to reestablish neighborhood middle schools. This was lost when Old West End, East Toledo, and Jones were closed. I do know that people in the Point are still peaved about the old Point Place JHS being closed. The closings have led to overcrowding, longer bus rides, and less safety.

My suggestion is to reopen these older schools. I know that they are being replaced by newer buildings, but I believe the public would be better served by more and smaller neighborhood schools.

Here's an example. In the Woodward feeder pattern there are seven elementary schools: Cherry, Lagrange, Riverside, Chase, Sherman, Edgewater, and Ottawa River(I guess eight if you want to include the temporarily closed Spring). Now it is widely known that the district will have to operate the old Leverette when the new Leverette opens. This is due to the new Leverette being too small. Why not open a new middle in a different part of the feeder pattern.

For example why not give the people in Point Place what they want a middle school. People who work for TPS know that the Point has notoriously not voted for levies since the old PPJHS was closed. This would give an incentive for that area to vote for levies. It's been done before (see Rogers, Start, and Bowsher). This doesn't mean only kids from the Point go this school. It would be smart to send the middle school students from Chase and Riverside there also. This would reduce overcrowding at Leverette and reinforce community support among the different the Summit St. neighborhoods.

Educationally, it has been proven that smaller enrollments help in academics and discipline. With many of the districts troubles coming on the middle school level, it would be best for the community to have 14 or 15 middle schools instead of 7.

Comments are welcome:)

as I knew would happen, you can't keep a toledo democrat from feeding at the public trough for TOO long-they repackaged/recycled smilin' jack. Maybe he can moonlight teaching a speech class.


Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?


'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

The major problem with the new school buildings are that they are built too small for current enrollments. DeVeaux, Byrnedale, Robinson, and Leverette will all have at least one grade in the old buildings. Talks of swing spaces are a little off. For example, Spring Elementary is suppose to be the swing school for many of the Woodward area elementaries (Currently Cherry ES). Also the old Jones JHS is suppose to be the swing space for Arlington Elementary this fall. Keyser School in the Rogers area will have to keep the old builing open also. Hey, why did they close Fall-Myer or Mt. Vernon. Oh yeah and the Spring kids were spread through out the Woodward area. Does that make sense?

Ottawa River and schools built in the 50's and 60's were cheap and quickly built. They were dumps after 30 years. I went to Start in the 90's and it was a dump back then.

I still believe going to at least 12 middle schools will ease the problems of overcrowding, distance traveled for school, and safety.

Here's a question for parents. Would you like your child to go to a middle school that had 600 students and he/she had to ride a bus or a middle school that had 300-350 students and could walk to school?

Oh and I found out about Jack Ford at Libbey's graduation. Interesting how the Board of Education is used as a political stepping stone (goddamn cliches).

What happened to K-8 schools? I would rather that my children go to the neighborhood school from K-12. I don't want my children bussed anywhere.

1. The suggestion that the huge majority of Ottawa River and Edgewater students don't go to Leverette and Woodward is flat out wrong. It happens. It happens regularly. But it's far from the norm.

2. Most kids with parents that worry about such things leave TPS at an earlier age, probably to keep from upsetting things too much. It would be a little hard, I think, for a student to go to St. Johns (Point Place K-8, not Jesuit) for only the last 2 years. Not academically speaking, just socially.

3. For what it's worth, I think it would be good for TPS to see some Point Place ideas and practices exported to the rest of the district. Ottawa River and Edgewater have been notoriously high-performing schools.

4. To understand the attitude of residents against Leverette/Woodward you have to understand the geography and history of Point Place.

Point Place is geographically separate from Toledo. It's a peninsula. In addition to fostering a self-contained, small-town feeling, it also just makes it harder to get to some places.

Woodward, for example, is 5 miles away from someone living in the middle of Point Place. In comparison, Woodward is 2 miles from Scott High School, 3.5 miles from Waite High School, 4.1 miles from Start, 5 miles from Libby, 8 miles from Bowsher and 10 miles from Rogers.

Looking at these numbers it's clear that MOST STUDENTS are not attending high schools 5 miles away. Imagine if students near Bowsher were bussed to Woodward. Wouldn't that create a JUSTIFIABLE outcry? Consider that if you live in the "back" of the point, it's the same distance from Woodward as the neighborhoods off S.Detroit and Heatherdowns.

I've heard similar complaints from parents who live in Washington Township and are bussed to Hiawatha instead of the much-closer Shoreland School. It's not that Hiawatha or Leverette or Woodward are bad schools. It's mostly that they're outside of the community.

Ok, based on your numbers, the enrollment of Edgewater and Ottawa River is 564. It's a little crude, but if I just average that over the 7 grades in those schools, that's about 80 TPS students in point place schools per grade level.

So, Leverette has 2 grades. If 100% of Point Place students attended the school, you'd expect 160 point place students. By your own numbers, 131 students in 43611 (point place -- not every street in the Point is numbered) is 81% of 160.

As for the remaining 19%, I'd remind you:

1. A not insignificant number of kids attending Point Place grade schools are not point place residents.

2. You also suggested that these kids 'leave public school.' I think it's entirely possible that some chose an intra-district transfer. After all, other TPS Jr & Sr High Schools are not much farther, comparatively, than Leverette & Woodward.

I agree that it's COMMON for Point Place students to leave TPS after 6th grade, but I disagree that it's the norm for the majority of students.

For what it's worth, I'm speaking with some experience here. I went from Ottawa River to Leverette ten years ago, my step-brother followed 3 years after that, my oldest sister five years ago, and my youngest sister is going to the 8th grade at Leverette next year. This is no more scientific than your survey, but it's worth noting.

The addresses of where students attending Toledo Public schools is available like that? It seems pretty unsafe that they would give out information like that on students. If someone was interested in harming children to be able to have addresses of where children lives seems a bit unwise.

I had no idea that this type of information was out there, as a TPS parent that's kind of troubling.

We don't remember days only moments...

I've done that for years, after getting all kinds of junk mail and having privacy concerns. I realize the public schools are public but I protect private information on my children as a matter of action. With some of the people out there with motivation to do harm even in a Public School that doesn't mean that personal information needs to be released.

I can understand basic information being available for statistical purposes, I was just surprised that addresses were available like that of individual students.

I'll give you an example of why think it should not be easily accessible, a neighbor moved here and moved her children into this neighborhood because her former boyfriend was stalking her and the police can only do so much since many people violate protection orders. If this information is so easily out there, someone like him could easily discover where the children were attending school and not only be able to find them but her...

We don't remember days only moments...

I obviously don't know that much about TPS when it comes to things like this, I'm used to other districts where not even parent's club was given contact information such as parent name, addresses or phone numbers unless the parent wanted it released.

We don't remember days only moments...

"The issue in Point Place reminds me of the way the southern states handled integration and the educational system. The white parents got together and after a certain age they send their children to private schools. That practice continues today."

Please tell me your not insinuating that because a parent chooses to send their kids to a private school after a public grade school education, that they are being racist, are you? I'll wait to hear what you have to say before going on.

You're kidding me, right?

I certainly hope you can substantiate your claims via research instead of assumption.

Because the way I remember it, the school is composed of students within it's district. Could it perhaps be because the school district in the Point dosen't have a large contingent of ethnic culture? And who's fault is that? The Point?

Always always always the race card.

..."The information coming out of Point Place school is very interesting. It's like its own little enclave. Almost like Washington local. A school system within a school system."

I could only imagine what could have been insinuated with the paragraph you backed this comment up with, considering with your past passionate comments on the race issues.

I certainly hope you could elaborate more than with that you posted above,especially this: "The issue in Point Place reminds me of the way the southern states handled integration and the educational system." I'm having a problem not reading this as an ethnically charged statement.

Ok, so your predjuice about Leverette and Woodward is YOUR OWN, then, isn't it? And you blame it on Point Place residents... interesting.

My youngest sister is doing excellent at leverette, just like both my other sisters did, and my brother, just as I said.

These schools were perfectly good enough for us, all college educated and relatively successful. It was an "academic emergency" when I attended there, too, they just didn't call it that back then.

And then, just as now, what REALLY MATTERS is the student. What REALLY MATTERS is the attitude of the parents. And, as a parent, if you say "you're going to go to Leverette and you're going to do well and you're not going to care if other students aren't doing well" well, that's what I was told, and it worked just fine.

It's not a perfect school, but I think parents like you LOVE IT, really, because it gives you somebody else to blame when your kid fails or underperforms. You blame the board and the faculty and the other parents of the other kids. But if you teach your kid that the buck stops at his or her desk, you'd be surprised how well they can do, "academic emergency" or not.

The truth is most of those kids have not been raised in a way that allows them to be successful at school. The academic emergency there is because of THAT, not because of any thing the district or the school is or is not doing. NOBODY could go in there and run it much better. If you think that board policy or whatever is the reason unruly kids from one of the poorest neighborhoods in Toledo are unsuccessful in the classroom, you're just being naive.

The truth is that you have grossly misstated the situation and that the insight you THINK you have into the mind of a "point place resident (Lisa Sobecki)" is just not accurate. All of this comes down to what you THINK happens in the Point.

Check again.

"Point Place parents do not send their children to public school after elementary school."

Who seriously gives a shit? Its' a parent choice. Half the kids I went to school with at St. John's Jesuit came from public grade schools. It happens, deal with it. But you certainly seemed to insinuate that the REASON Point Place kids don't go to the public high school is because there are more black kids going there. How does the historical situation you painted remind you of Point Place, if not the above? If I'm wrong here, correct me, and I apologize.

...to say this is "some" PP parents do not send their kids to a school in academic emergency. (I think it has more to do with the 'emergency' status than with anything else, though I do agree with ShaneH that any child can get a good education in any school.)

However, without knowing the demographics of the Point - how many 7-12th graders there are out here AND how many actually attend Woodward HS (my alma mater) versus another school - you only have impressions.

You cannot even judge the proportion by the data currently cited regarding who is attending based upon street name or zip code because you do not know how many are in the Point's WHS district in TOTAL.

We're fortunate here in PP that we have two good elementary schools (Edgewater - my alma mater, and Ottawa River). Parents here range in income from lower to upper middle class. Home prices in the TPS district range from $20,000 to $300,000. You have a rather diverse economic population, but rather involved parents. Involvement of the parents is probably more of an indicator of the choice of high school than anything else. These involved parents make informed decisions as to what's best for their child, and I can understand and support someone who chooses not to deal with a school in academic emergency.

All this being said, the fact that other parents in the Point may have made a decision to send their kids to a non-public school is not a reflection on a candidate who just also happens to be from this neighborhood. And, before anyone jumps all over me, I not a supporter of Lisa Sobecki's. I appreciate her willingness to put herself forward to the voters, but disagree with some of her positions.

Perhaps we should all judge these candidates based upon their ideas for the school system, their positions in the campaign and NOT based upon where they live.

"Point Place parents do not send their children to public school after elementary school."

And this is where you diverge from fact into fantasy. This is just B.S. By your own numbers, if all parents from Point Place sent their children to Leverette, there would be 160 Point Place students in leverette. There aren't. There are 130.

So 30 parents chose to send their children to other schools, OUT OF 160, and from that you try to say "Point Place parents do not send their children to public school after elementary school."

It's B.S. All you're doing is trying to dress your opinion up as fact.

...your example gives those of us on S.B. a better understanding of your position and your reasoning than anything that you've said previously on this thread. I think that knowing things like this gives a better context to your comments.

But you know how written statements can be misunderstood. For instance - above you refer to 'special interest students of Point Place.' I'm sure that others could say that the AAPA is only interested in the "special interest students who are African American." Sometimes, just being aware of how others interpretation is filtered by our own self experiences can help...

And then there is the sentence "...the practice that is affecting children in my community..." could imply to some that you don't see the schools as a problem for everyone - or that you separate 'your' community from everyone else's. I know that's not what you mean, but that's how some may interpret the phrasing.

I think that whenever we have dealings with candidates and elected officials, we need to be specific about what we asked for and what response we got. Sometimes we ask for things they have no control over and others on the board can lend perspective to such requests. Other times, we ask for less than what we should be getting and still get no help/assistance. That's when everyone needs to know so that the behavior is not rewarded with a victory on election night.

Can you share more of the details about your request of Ms. Sobecki?

You're entitled to your opinion. But you didn't share an opinion. You proposed--and provided data to purportedly back it up--that point place residents don't send their kids to Leverette or Woodward. When I disagreed with you, you all but told me I was flat-out wrong.

This is a question of FACT. And you suggested that the FACT is that Point Place residents aren't much concerned with TPS past K-6. And you suggested that this lack of concern makes Sobecki unqualified for the job.

I have issue with that for 3 reasons:

1. I lived it. Since 1985 11 kids in my family--myself included--went to Ottawa River. 8 went on to Leveratte and beyond. (2 moved to Chicago in 3rd grade, one went to T.S.A. After leverette I moved with my mother and went to Oregon City Schools)

2. It makes it sound like PP residents don't support TPS. That's flat-out wrong. This is a complete guess, but I bet if you look at things like levy passage, Point Place supports levies more often than the city as a whole.

3. Even if it was true--and it's just not--why would this preclude somebody from the school board? How would YOU react if I said Jack Ford isn't qualified because he won't be interested in helping white kids succeed? How would YOU react if I said that a woman shouldn't be elected because she would focus too much on Title-9 and ignore the needs of the boys in our school system?

You'd probably call me ignorant and you'd be right.

Well, discriminating based on geography isn't any better. And don't try to say hat what you didn't isn't prejudiced. Sobecki lives in Point Place so you didn't judge her on her merits, you had a preconceived notion. And yes, I read your anecdote, and while it sounds bad, i'd say that there are 2 sides to each story, and more importantly, I say that the way you interpret her actions is, AGAIN, a matter of prejudice over what zipcode she happens to call home.

...others might not, hence the point...

I ask you about Jack Ford because what you did was discriminate Sobecki based on where she lived. So.. how would YOU react if I used blatant prejudices in my decision making?

I didn't ask you what your problem with Ford is. I asked you how you'd react if I said that MY PROBLEM with Ford is that he would only help black kids and not white kids. So, how would you?

(Note to the casual reader: This is hypothetical. My problem with Jack Ford is that he's been in a coma for 20 years but nobody's noticed yet)

Here's the connection:

Your comments about Sobecki are PREJUDICIAL. You perceive her actions differently because of where she lives, because you have an unfounded bias against where she lives.

And if you discriminate Sobecki based on where she lives, how would you feel if I discriminated Ford based on the color of his skin? How would you like it if I did the same to YOU because you're a woman?

Your comments against Sobecki are unfounded and unfair.

I know NOTHING about Sobecki. Absolutely NOTHING. But I do know what I've read from you, and that's you, over and over, saying Sobecki isn't a good choice because she lives in Point Place and point place parents don't even send their kids to TPS after grade 6.

I hope that was clear enough. Maybe you didn't figure it out because you're a woman? Or maybe it's because you live on the left side of the street and not the right side? Or maybe it's because you were born in the AM and not the PM? Or maybe it's because your father ate oatmeal the day you were conceived? What? that makes no sense? I'm speaking gibberish? ..... Yeah... And that's about how logical your point-place theories sound to me....

...junior high in the Point...It's where I went. It was closed a couple years after Kleis Elementary was closed. Which makes some sense - if we didn't have the population for three elementary schools, we would eventually have a decreased need in 7-8th grades...

If I recall my history correctly, there was a high school out here, but it was quite some time ago, as even my uncle attended Woodward.

And don't forget that the creative plan to add 7-8th grades at Edgewater was an option presented to keep it from being closed. It had more to do with finding continued or expanded uses for the school so it remained open than it did with anything else.

"Now it is widely known that the district will have to operate the old Leverette when the new Leverette opens. This is due to the new Leverette being too small. Why not open a new middle in a different part of the feeder pattern."

I thought that the reason Leverette was included in the first stage -- and the reason it's being kept open -- is that adjacent property was available to build the new school without tearing down the existing one.

The same with Ottawa River. O.R. was a newer school as TPS goes--about 50 years old--but one of the first to be replaced because there was enough land to build the new school and use the existing building to house the Spring students.

Am I wrong about this, or is Leverette being kept open to house another jr.high, as O.R. was kept open to house another k-6?

A middle school contains grades 6-8. It is TPS's intention to replace all Junior Highs (grades 7-8) with this system.

I will say times have passed the neighborhood K-8 school in this city. The best example for this is the Libbey area elementaries (Newbury, Marshall, Walbridge, and Pickett) that are operating as K-7. They are dealing with serious discipline issues with their older children. Also they do not change classes for the different subjects. These kids are stuck in the same classrooms all day. Are they being prepared for high school in their self-contained classrooms?

I don't want students to be bussed to their middle school either. If anything you want students to walk home. That's why I suggested that each feeder pattern have two middle schools (you know the original plan during this new construction project). This would create more of neighborhood ownership of the middle schools.

I believe that most people would rather go to their neighborhood schools K-12. But the perception of TPS is that it's the wild west at many of the Junior Highs, Middle Schools, and High Schools. That goes a LONG way in this town.

I'll give you an example. I live in the Old West End (OWE). Scott's the neighborhood school for the area. Yet Scott pulls few if any students out of the OWE. Why? The perception is that the middle and upper class kids of the area will be easy prey for the 1,000 thugs at Scott. Is this true? No. If everyone in the OWE sent their kids to Scott, they could take over that school socially, academically, and athletically. It wouldn't take a numerical advantage to change the school realistically or perception-wise.

Now that's a post speaking the truth.