City Threatens to Shut Down Hotel Seagate

TOLEDO -- With nuisance orders in hand, Mayor Carty Finkbeiner marched into the Hotel Seagate to serve management a stern warning.

The mayor told the management at the hotel that immediate steps need to be taken to address maintenance and cleanliness issues, or the city's ready to go to court to close it down. This is part of a larger campaign to improve the conditions at hotels and motels in the Glass City.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=6493073

Also check out:

http://glasscityjungle.com/wordpress/?p=1257

No votes yet

It's all about shaming them, people! If he had mailed them some letter do you think they'd do anything about it?

This is a great move by Carty. As a downtown resident, I can attest for how many conventions come thru here. I was surprised myself until I started seeing how much foot traffic they actually generate. And I'm a dozen blocks away from the convention centre.

Simply put, Carty went to bat today for the rest of the downtown businesses, many of whom would be hurt considerably if we lose convention traffic.

Let's face it, there's not a lot to draw these people to Toledo to begin with. We'd be stupid to give them reasons NOT to come..

Is that what it's all about Shane?? Is that the way a professional handles problems?? Is that the way a boss reprimands a worker who's not pulling his weight??

If you have a problem with a business, do you contact the press, or do you contact management?

What if that hotel's problems are due to lack of funding due to failing customer levels? Will Carty's antics help or hurt that business? If the bad press hurts the business enough for them to have to close their doors, what has Carty accomplished other than more job loss?

Carty is trying to brainwash Toledoans into thinking he's business friendly, but he's an egoist and a bully - anything he can do to get in front of the camera is A-OK no matter the consequences.

Would a truly business friendly mayor pull a stunt like this, or would he use his influence to contact the business owner and have a private discussion about the problem?

A great move by Carty, Shane? Bullshit. It was a bonehead move done by an immature little man who continues to be an embarrassment to the city and needs to be removed.

I agree Billy. Carty threatened to shut these hotels down, that's real business-friendly. A private conversation would have been a lot more effective. And it cost us taxpayers $2500 for these secret shoppers to go to four hotels. Wouldn't it just have been easier to send an inspector in there, or a city staff person to act as the secret shopper? Or perhaps Carty could have stayed there unannounced. But that would have been to low for him. What an ass.

Anybody else get the feeling that ShaneH is indeed Brian Schwartz??

I don't think that the "minority" that gather here have a sole purpose of bitching about Carty. I think that we are all a group of people who are passionate about our city and hate the direction it is going. We are upset with the mayor and City Council (namely the Republicans) and their spend spend spend attitude. At least that's my reason for coming here.

anything? I guess I'm getting from this that he found out about this and went straight to the media? That wouldn't be right, I like the shopper idea but not to embarrass businesses with unless it's the last resort.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

In this time of budget problems the hiring of people to do the work of city staff that get paid to inspect is out of line, in my opinion.

We pay the salaries of the professionals at government center and now we have paid for secret shoppers.

Can we expect the secret people to snoop on other businesses?

Or is this a one time snoop session?

And what is the positive effect to be expected with regards to local businesses?

The city sending people in addition to regular inspections on our dime?

Does the Mayor not think that the professional staff is preforming properly?

If so, down size them, if not let them do their job and he does his, which does not involve micromanaging.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

1. less government is better than more.
2. a broke city should not be hiring secret shoppers to sting a facility when health department inspectors stand at the ready with training to properly to detecting and provide information for resolving hazardous/unhealthy situations.
3. Shane is a prick who goes from thread to thread berating other for their opinions.

Big Jim

"...After all, you don't really KNOW what happened before Carty walked into the hotel, do you? You don't KNOW who was called or talked to or consulted. You don't KNOW the events that led up to it. All you're doing is making assumptions."

Well, Shane, my question is do YOU know the events that led up to it? Or are you making an 'assumption' that Carty was acting appropriately?

And, for the record, I'm not Republican. But some of my best friends are.

Once again Shane delivers the big belly laugh. As one of about three tokens conservatives in the whole city - THANKS !!!!!!

Hey - all y'all did you KNOW you were Republicans? That's rich.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

The reports about the mystery shoppers thus far have not stated if the people were acting under the authority of the Health Department.

" 139.11. Nuisance abatement.

The Director of Health and Environment, the Commissioner of Environmental and Consumer Health, any Health/Environment sanitarian or police officer may compel any person to desist from and/or discontinue the engagement of any act, occupation, business, pursuit or proceeding, which, in the opinion of the Director of Health and Environment, Commissioner of Environmental and Consumer Health, sanitarian and/or police officer, is likely to occasion a public nuisance, or become dangerous to life or health."

From city code.

So perhaps Brian Schwartz can provide some insight into the matter or is this another case of our Mayor doing as he wishes.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

This is only an "embarrassment" because it wasn't "your guy" that did it.

WRONG Shane. It would be an embarrassment whomever did it.

this site is dominated by right/right-leaning folks with just a minority of liberals.

WRONG Shane. There are plenty of liberals on this site - everyone but you just happens to be in agreement on this issue. Being a liberal doesnt necessarily mean you're a Carty apologist. Note also that you stand alone on the Glass City Jungle too.

Face it - you only think it was the RIGHT move because YOUR boy is the one who did it!!

Let me ask you a couple questions Shane - not that I really give a shit what your answer will be...

In a parent/child relationship, when is public shaming proper?
In an employer/employee relationship, when is public shaming proper?

...whether you love Carty or hate him.

What Carty did was grandstanding - He thought it was the right thing to do to make a public stand about "cleaning up" Toledo.

The problem is that the way Carty sees things is not always the way that others see things.

Many business people and citizens will see this as a public embarrassment. While that might be effective in some ways, it's not usually the best course of action when dealing with a business you're trying to encourage.

The real issue is that Carty relies upon the tactics he learned while coaching. It's probably one of the reasons he makes such a great cheerleader for our city - but it's also one of the reasons his messages and actions tend to backfire or get misinterpreted when it comes to business.

I guess I go back to an old adage my grandmother told me. When dealing with employees, praise in public, chastise in private. I think this adage applies in this instance. I think Carty should have had a private conversation with the manager/owner. It certainly would have been received better than a 'throw down the gauntlet' approach that immediately put the manager on the defensive in front of a bunch of news cameras.

Just my $.02

Shane - you are one self-righteous, self-appointed, blindly opinionated, delirious, unhappy, socially challenged, antagonistic, disrepectful, unyielding, off balance, condescending man/boy.

The truth of ALL matters is that there are TWO sides to every issue. The responsibility of the people is to understand that premise. The purpose and responsibility of government is to evaluate the situation and proceed accordingly. Public shame/embarrassment is not a responsible tactic in ANY situation. This only breeds hostility, contempt and adversarial behavior.

Carty was not wrong in his intent, but he was dreadfully wrong in his performance. His showman-like propensity got the best of him and his judgment took a nosedive. This was a poorly thought out act, with little or no consideration to the economic ripple effect that can (and most likely will) be felt in the hearts of business owners in Toledo.

The signs stating "Toledo - A city of pride" should remind Carty that part of pride is common respect and a willingness to understand another person's situation BEFORE making a public announcement of his intent to 'surprise' a local business and 'shame' them into compliance. There are much better ways to deal with this situation.

As for your reference to Maggie - I would tread lightly. Maggie is no longer a public official and is no longer 'fair game' to the likes of you. It may be best to remember that sometimes we don't know 'the rest of the story' (in Paul Harvey fashion) and until such time (if ever) that we do know the facts, you should withold public accusation of a PRIVATE citizen. Maggie is a great person, a good friend and I'm proud to know her. No matter what rain clouds have previously formed over her in her term in PUBLIC office.

screwed up. Something basically, inherently, mentally wrong with him, the guy needs some help. Let him rant - you can't have a rational discussion with an irrational person.

Can't happen, don't try. Just let him rant, scroll past his posts. Life is far too short to waste trying to comprehend the incomprehensible. Choose instead to dialogue rationally - which would preclude dialogue with Shane

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

I was never a window clerk, but I remember the big uproar when

Old South End Broadway

shane - YOU are a public embarrassment because you are embarrassing yourself - publicly. It amazes me how you can presume to know how we all feel about Carty, if we voted for him or not, or our political affiliations. For what it's worth - I am a Libertarian, and I did vote for Carty, and I still like a lot about Carty & offer praise when it's deserved. I would possibly even vote for Carty again - at least he has some fire in his belly, unlike Ford who you could hardly tell if he was even awake. I also have no problems with secret shoppers - they've been used for a long time. The problem I have with how Carty handled this situation is pretty much the same problem others here have said. He should have had a private meeting with management, and given them the opportunity to correct the situation before taking it to the media. That is simply good management. My guess is that there will be a lot of people who won't reserve rooms at any of these hotels now - based on that article in the Blade. A soiled reputation is difficult to overcome. You may say 'so what?' - but what if these hotels were able to correct the situations with no media blitz? It'll be too little, too late. And the last thing Toledo needs is one more reason to not come & spend money here. Those hotels were barely squeaking by as it was - Toledo is not a big destination spot to begin with. So now, there will be less people booking rooms - based on one article. And what if the worst complaints were a couple of rooms with leaky faucets & dusty corners? The elevator can't be overlooked - if it was not functioning, then of course it's a priority. Maggie's grandmother was a smart woman - Carty could have learned something from her. At any rate - I am not always bashing Carty (or Bush) - I voted for both, am not pleased with a lot - but praise when it's in order. shane I suggest you be careful about generalizations about people. And yes, the majority of posters on this thread do seem to agree that Carty could have handled this in a less dramatic, less public way - many of us voted for Carty, many did not. Many are still ok with Carty - many are not. I do believe you have one of the most foul dispositions of anybody I've seen. And for what it's worth - Toledo stands to lose a lot of conventions because of the smoking ban too. Whether you agree or not - it's true.

I like Carty. He is not p.c. My brother (who lives in Bedford Township) likes Carty. At least with Carty you

Old South End Broadway

I do not like or dis-like the Mayor on a personal level. On a Mayoral level he should sit in his office and do what he was elected to do, manage the city for a number of years and not be out on the streets doing the work of the professional staff members of the city.

There are staff and departments that inspect and issue notices of violations and that is what they are paid to do.

"Maybe he should have approached the management of the hotel. Anyone know if anyone in government did? "

The hotel would have been inspected and notices of violations would have been placed with a time limit to correct the problem, just the same as is done with restuarants, etc. in Toledo.

Why the Mayor felt is necessary to draw attention now to the matter is unknown.

Does Toledo benefit from the old fashion or the new fashion?

Are we looking for more of the old or a new day and a new future?

The Mystery Shoppers in this case seem to have done the inspection for the city as there is no mention of city inspectors visiting the hotel, only nuisance orders being given and then a threat if the hotel fails to comply.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

""We have been trying to get the large and small hotels to raise their standards. I don't want our city to be seen as an unclean city," Mr. Finkbeiner said. If the Seagate or other hotels don't cooperate, "we're going to close them down," he said."

".... the hotel gets complaints because guests arrive expecting a higher level of luxury than is available in the $59-a-night hotel.

"We do get complaints. They think we're dirty, but we're not. We're very clean. We're just old and outdated," Ms. Fielder said.

She turned the tables on Mr. Finkbeiner, saying her guests complain about the lack of activity in Toledo's downtown.

"They constantly complain of nowhere to shop, nowhere to walk. They walk out front of our hotel and see Fort Industry Square, which is 90 percent empty. We defend the city constantly," Ms. Fielder said."

"Brian Schwartz, the mayor's spokesman, said the city spent $2,250 to send secret shoppers to visit four hotels - the Toledo Riverfront Hotel (formerly the Wyndham Hotel), the Park Inn Hotel, Hotel Seagate, and the Clarion Hotel Westgate.

Mr. Schwartz said the money came out of the Department of Neighborhoods budget and because it was under $10,000, did not require City Council approval."

It would appear from the article that the mystery shoppers were the inspectors and not a city inspector.

Odd, as there is no clause in the city code to allow mystery shoppers to do the work of the city's professional staff.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

What the correlation of Carty haters is to the time spent listening to WSPD.

I don't think he's ever pretended to be someone other than he is, with a 30-some year track record of local political involvement, yet Toledo voters elected him, what? Twice? Thrice?

LOL, perhaps the conservatives/Libertarions on here would have rather Mike Ferner won in '93?

merrily reading away, and all of a sudden this place turns into Toledo Talk.

Yet another place where civil discourse has become extinct.

Saddddd. . .

Hooda Thunkit

This just gets funnier and funnier...since you were such a 'well respected' or 'learned authority' here - what exactly are you that have been diminished by someone calling you on the carpet like a badly behaved nine year old?

Maggie is no longer a public official. As such I believe that your discussion has or is approaching the point where you would have a civil liability if she chose to push the case.

You're a walking example of natural selection Shame. By the time you ever make any money they'll be a line of your enemies waiting with judgments in hand to take it from you.

If you think editing your response makes it just disappear forever, you're not well informed. Look at the clock at the posting ahead of carols response - he just edited his comment I believe.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Yeah, you're wrong, but it's OK: you're entitled to your opinion. You're just another sore loser who hates the fact that he was elected again. Your type permeates this website. Oh well. I suppose the minority needs a place to gather and complain.

.. So many on this website champion the causes of freedom and equality. But so many times they seek to undermine the choices that the FREE and EQUAL electorate had made. Smoking Bans and Carty, just to name the most recent examples.

We won't agree on this -- and I'm OK with that. I think Bush is an embarrassment, so I can relate. What I can't much relate to, though, is dismissing everything he does out of hand. After all, you don't really KNOW what happened before Carty walked into the hotel, do you? You don't KNOW who was called or talked to or consulted. You don't KNOW the events that led up to it. All you're doing is making assumptions.

And even if he didn't, who cares? This is only an "embarrassment" because it wasn't "your guy" that did it. At the most this is shrug-worth. Maybe deserving of an "ahhh, that crazy carty." But you jump up and down on it for no reason other than your personal dislike for the man who Toledoans--myself proudly included--thought was best to lead our city.

Given Chris's internet expertise that would be a pretty unintelligent move for anyone to do here. Nor do I think Brian would ever do something like that.

I'm curious though westsider how it is that we have a majority of Democrats on City Council so how the Republicans alone are exhibiting a "spend, spend, spend" attitude. Without the votes from Democrats, Republicans can't get much done on City Council.

I don't have a problem with the secret shoppers, even though I think it would have been or should have been possible to deal with citizen complaints without taking that step. I don't have a problem with citing the hotel as a nuisance but I think the public display was un-necessary unless there is some type of past history where this hotel has refused to correct citations.

Yet, I also can't help but acknowledge that local restaurants who do not pass their inspections are mentioned on our local television channels, infact, WTVG makes a point to do this on a regular basis for the benefit/information of consumers. Anyone remember the rat infested KFC in New York? That's one example of a situation where shame seemed to get the attention of everyone. I'd like to think that trying to embarrass a local business would be the very last step....

We don't remember days only moments...

1. It's generally the philosophy of people on here (most of which you agree with..) that the city should be subcontracting garbage, ambulance service, etc. Isn't that what was done here? Outsourcing something to a small business?

2. You're seriously calling mystery shoppers "snoops?" Seriously? Nice spin, but yeah, it doesn't stick.

3. The key part of "secret shopper" is SECRET. Health inspectors with clipboards are not exactly flying-in under the radar

Berating?

So.. Sharing a contrary opinion is berating? It's not my fault that this site is dominated by right/right-leaning folks with just a minority of liberals. Like I said, this place is where all 50 Republicans in Toledo get together to complain about things. So naturally, we don't happen to see eye-to-eye about most things. Oh well. This site isn't here to sit around and jerk each other off all day. Civility is nice but it needs to be bilateral.

"everyone but you just happens to be in agreement on this issue"

Really? Everyone? I'm impressed by your omnipotence.

...Actually.. No.. I'm not. You're just bringing it upon yourself to speak for everyone.

"There are plenty of liberals on this site"

No shit? Did I say there weren't? I did say that the site is dominated by those with a right-lean. And it is. So you're just refuting me for the sake of refuting me. Yawn.

"you only think it was the RIGHT move because YOUR boy is the one who did it!"

No, I don't necessarily think it was the BEST move, but I don't think it's a big deal, either. I said as much in a previous post. i believe I called it 'shrug worthy' because it is. Caring very much in either direction for such a tiny issue is indicative of some fanaticism...

"Note also that you stand alone on the Glass City Jungle too."
There aren't many posts on that website--i've never seen it before yesterday--and most of the posts are by Swamp members. So what's your point?

"Let me ask you a couple questions Shane"
Your questions have no merit to this discussion. Unless Carty is the daddy? And you're the bit.. i mean, child?

So let me get this straight: You're against Carty?

Wow. Whoodathunkit..

You know what else is a public embarrassment? An elected official funneling money to a presidential campaign in violation of FEC laws.

... Hey, we all make mistakes, i've made lots and i'll make lots more, but since we're talking about public embarrassments and all....

(Admin note: For the record, they pleaded "no contest" to "one misdemeanor count of violating state ethics law for failing to disclose meals from Noe. It is a first-degree misdemeanor to falsify an ethics form, required annually from elected officials and certain appointed ones." It was a state ethics violation, not federal law violation)

What reference to Maggie?

...why... i have no idea what you're talking about. I'd be careful, Carol. Suggesting that Maggie might have done something wrong.. well.. that might just be libelous.

i had heard on wspd the city stated an inspection had been done recently. during an interview with the hotel mgmt, they said no such inspection had taken place. i haven't seen anything else on this, though.

i meant to say a "city" inspection (the traditional type). sorry about that.

I don't think there's any connection or association between the names conservative (i.e.,Republican) and Libertarian. Maybe there used to be some time ago, but not any more. Just my humble observation.

I like the "Shame" part of it. Pure genius!

*

I don't think that the "minority" that gather here have a sole purpose of bitching about Carty. I think that we are all a group of people who are passionate about our city and hate the direction it is going. We are upset with the mayor and City Council and their spend spend spend attitude. At least that's my reason for coming here.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Westsider's post gets my nomination for post of the month, other than the 'republicans'on council bit(which I removed-I also couldn't care less who SH really is). We have no replican party here. In order for a republican to be elected in Lucas County, you have to really be a democrat in everything but that 'R' after your name (prime examples-Sarantou & Ludeman). The lone exception to that since the 80's was Maggie, IMO. But everything else you said was dead on.

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

If there are those who feel his comments about Maggie Thurber were unneccessary cheap shots, fair enough.

Most of us, and I'm one of them, give her credit for coming onto these boards as herself, using her real name, conducting serious, respectful discussions and debating the topics of the day. I've enjoyed ageeing and disagreeing with Maggie, razzing her on occasion, and generally having some fun. She contributes to the dialogue, and obviously cares about everything associated with her hometown and the future of it.

But once a public offical, always a public official. Your name has a public track record associated with everything you've accomplished and been held accountable for, both positive and negative. Have Clinton/Monica jokes disappeared because he's been a "private" person for seven years? Of course not. Should he sue for libel because he's no longer holding a public office and is now a private citizen?

If someone wants to make an issue of what someone did or did not accomplish while in office, no matter if that person is still in office, it's arguably fair game. It may be cheap and it may be unneccessary, but it's hardly lawsuit-material.

*

LOL
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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

*

LOL

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

*

my general philosophy is that
Submitted by bigjim on Thu, 2007-05-10 21:21.
1. less government is better than more.
2. a broke city should not be hiring secret shoppers to sting a facility when health department inspectors stand at the ready with training to properly to detecting and provide information for resolving hazardous/unhealthy situations.
3. Shane is a prick who goes from thread to thread berating other for their opinions.

ROTFLMAO

That was great.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

That's an interesting notion. Perhaps I'm Carty?

Or... Batman?

Either way, I don't see what the big deal is that Carty called them out publicly. It's only a big deal because Carty did it. Period.

And if calling-out a local business has a POSITIVE NET EFFECT for local business, I'm all for it. I'd think you would be, too.

1. does this have anything to do with utilizing outsourcing public services? is mystery shopping a public service? is the use of such services common among other local govt's (i really am curious)?

2. mystery shoppers are used in the private sector to critique, not to close. they cherry-picked four hotels. yes, they were used as "snoops". this is just another pile of crap by carty and, yes, it does stick.

3. are you kidding me? inspectors with clipboards could easily visit these properties unannounced to get the same basic results. they could have checked on the plumbing. they could have checked elevators. an unannounced visit would not have allowed hotel personnel to "dress" things up. "Nice spin, but yeah, it doesn't stick"

if carty would have used that avenue, he could have still showed up at the hotel with the camera crews.....and saved additional taxpayer money.

..it says L-I-B-E-R-T-A-R-I-A-N.

Dolt.

The Health Inspectors are trained and are part of the staff of the city of Toledo and the question becomes do they make the visits announced or unannounced.

If they walk and say, inspection time, then the hotel would not have time to correct the situation.

There is a listing in The Blade with inspection results and this seems to be more of the Mayor getting results, in this case possibly shutting down a hotel at the beginning of summer and the convention season.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

shane, such a nice touch. i've come to expect nothing more from your posts.

when your argument fails, resort to taking cheap shots. nice.

While I don't see how my blog has anything to do with this...some of the same people that comment there, also comment on Toledo Talk and here, we are all a part of the same net community that makes up the Toledo area.

That said, sometimes I am the only person that feels one way on a topic, I'm still entitled to my opinion. Whether the majority feels one way or another on a forum or a blog doesn't mean the few are not entitled to their opinion.

While I wouldn't give Shane any awards for his "net civility" how many people feel he's right or wrong really has nothing to do with anything unless of course we were all voting. That's about the only time that comes into play.

From a devil's advocate position, it is hard at times to write something you know won't be popular. You either do it because it's something you really believe in regardless of what you've seen others express or because you enjoy stirring the pot or? A combination of both...

We don't remember days only moments...

I've been told that somebody here feels my comments are "potentially libelous." Well, I want to thank that user for their concern. I can tell that you really care about me and that's flattering.

More to the point, though, i want to put your fears at rest. You shan't be concerned because:

A. I don't believe I accused anybody of anything in my post.
B. Even if I did (which I didn't), but even if I did, the truth is the best defense against libel.

But I do stand by my point... it would be a terrible public embarrassment should an elected official be involved in such illegal activities, wouldn't it?

... Lets be honest, if Carty ever did something like that, people here would be rabid.

Shame has been taking cheap shots at a lot of people, most recently Maggie. It's not lawsuit material, but still tawdry stuff and unnecessary. Says a lot about the guy saying it.

(Admin note: For the record, they pleaded "no contest" to "one misdemeanor count of violating state ethics law for failing to disclose meals from Noe. It is a first-degree misdemeanor to falsify an ethics form, required annually from elected officials and certain appointed ones." It was a state ethics violation, not federal law violation)

Thanks, I have an intelligent thought every now and then :) I should clarify what I meant when I made the comment about the Republicans on council. I meant to say that I'm just frustrated with the Repub's on Council... and I was thinking along the same lines as you Darkseid- sometimes I think that these people just want to get elected to office so they put an R after their name.

http://www.dallascityhall.com/scs/customer_service.html

http://www.convergemag.com/story.php?catid=95&storyid=105266

I'm not sure if the Health Inspectors can gauge customer service, which was a part of this from what I understand. You can't cite a business with a nuisance ordinance violation for poor customer service but it is a well known fact that people that are unhappy with a stay in a City will tell more people about their negative experience than they will a positive one.

Also, as I blogged on Glass City Jungle, a caller on Eye on Toledo stated he and a friend had called the Mayor's office and complained about conditions at Hotel Seagate a few weeks prior to this incident. Did that have anything to do with it, it seems logical to speculate it did.

I still don't agree with the way it was handled, I think there were better ways...

We don't remember days only moments...

I swear to god, you are so rabid to refute everything I say -- like Kate in the "Al Queda plans to kill 300k in Iraq" -- that you just fall over yourself trying to look like an asshole.

Go back and read my post, Brian. I'll wait.

Done?

Good.

Now, did I say that EVERYONE had a right-lean? No? Right. I didn't.

And did I say that YOU had a right-lean? No again? Well done, Bri.

...maybe there's hope for you after all....

...or maybe not...

What makes it a cheap shot? You tell me.

Nobody was here talking about cheap shots when everyone was accusing Carty of the thousands of things he's been accused of, most notably when everyone here derided him for "infringing up constitutional rights."

It's only a cheap shot because... she's a woman? she's actually here to 'defend herself' unlike Carty? You tell me...

..on a pig, Shane, it will still be a pig.

Man, and I thought you were Roscoe P. Coltrane from the Duke Boys.

well, thanks for the links.

the key points i see are chicago uses interns and dallas uses volunteers. it also looks to me both programs are using these "tools" to critique city services, not private business.

i'll tell you. this thread was about carty and the hotel. you went out of your way (and the way of the thread) to blister her for no apparent reason. couldn't you find anything of substance pertaining to the actual thread title? were you all out of bullets?

as for poor carty....

carty's actions warrant the negative feedback and response. his deeds summon such conversation. my opinions of him are simply products of his activities. he is a walking mistake and there are unfortunately toooo many examples to reference. this is just the latest example. it is unfortunate his ego won't allow him to see that.

anyhow, it's odd you defend him with such valor. the man can do no wrong, huh?

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