Why Do You Stay in Toledo?

You want to be close to your mom, dad, brother(s), sister(s), and extended family?
38% (14 votes)
Your friends are all here (if you aren't close to birth family)?
8% (3 votes)
You've got a career-enhancing job here?
32% (12 votes)
You love the scenic beauty of this part of Ohio?
3% (1 vote)
You're concerned that moving from your situation will lead you into something worse?
5% (2 votes)
You think there could be worse economic situations other places?
14% (5 votes)
Total votes: 37
No votes yet

I plan on moving but I have not been able to sell my home or get the price I need to pay off the mortgage!

do you plan to stay in Ohio? This state has one of the most anti-business climates I've seen. Unless you're a billion-dollar-a-year business, they don't care whether you live or die.

Sflagg, I can understand people wanting to leave. Not having strong roots here, or being frustrated with the political/economic situation, can make the place over the next hill seem appealing.

Pete, what states do have good

Old South End Broadway

First of all, is anyone else having problems seeing these voting screens? Is there a way to enlarge the font?

Secondly, they need a button that says "I'd move to the burb's or michigan in a heartbeat if I thought I could sell my house in this shit hole real estate market"

Most tax friendly states to businesses here: http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/90.html

N.C. ranks as fourth most 'business-friendly' state "Many large states such as California, New York, Illinois and Ohio let jobs slip through their fingers because of high taxes, weak economic development programs or prodigious red tape. States scoring in the study's bottom half often push jobs offshore," says Ronald Pollina, president of Pollina Corporate Real Estate."

(three year old article but very good explanation for what I believe you are asking neighborhood: http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2004/12/20/daily14.html?f=et84)

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

you've been renting since the 90's and now you're getting "your revenge"??

If that can bring a smile to your face, you run with it.

"A home is for LIVING in, and that's not a profitable enterprise ... because if it is, it only creates class separation."

So if no one should be a landlord and rent out a house, then what would all the renters do?

For some that is true and for some it is not true.

What I find more concerning is the tone of your posts that people do not follow your methods and thoughts are some less than you.

If I understand this correctly you moved here and took a loss when an employer decided to move out.

That happens to a lot of us.

I was laid off from a great paying job, not a local employer, and I struggled like the rest and have now found employment again.

Real estate markets go up and they come down like all parts of the economy.

All the rants and exclamations about class war fare and socialism does not and will not change what has happened and will continue to happen to all of us.

And by the way, for me a non-flipper, my house is the largest investment for me and I expect a return on it when I get ready to move from Toledo when retirement comes around and like any investment there are ups and there are downs.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

I tend to agree that homes aren

Old South End Broadway

Brassmonkey: I admire your optimism. I also admire your ability to foresee the future. How far back are you going, historically, to arrive at the above figure. Is this a trend observable over the last 50 years? 20 years? 10 years? Or, perhaps, five years?

I know this is what is predicted as a probable future for many college graduates during their career, but is that beginning to happen yet? Could something in the economy reach out, and bite them on the ass? What came first: the chicken or the egg? What comes first: the optimism, or the future?

Old South End Broadway

"What I'm saying instead that becoming a homeDEBTOR (not a homeOWNER) is stupid and any rational analysis of the current economy tells us that such oversubscription has produced remarkable harm to everyone."

How does one buy a home and not go into some form of debt? Unless of course they have the funds to buy the house outright.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

I fail to see how buying a home is not an investment. The house we live in has a mortgage that Im whittling down year by year. I was told that making 13 annual payments instead of the normal 12 will reduce your payment time from a 30yr mortgage by 9 years, Im doing that and it's true. My monthly payment is below $750, which compared to rent on a lot of apartments in this area is quite affordable.

Not that this matters, but the house Im in is not excessive, there're just the two of us, and the house is a two bedroom ranch, it's all on one floor, so if in our later years we cannot negotiate steps, we'll still be fine. Im only pointing this out to show that what Ive chosen to invest in is not excessive, and I dont need to 'downsize' later down the road.

Im 46, and as I continue to work, I continue to invest in other ways so I can support myself and my wife after we can no longer work. As I pay off my house that will be one less bill I need to cover, so as I invest, Im setting aside for bills I will need to pay, and paying off bills in advance so I wont need to worry about them later on.

If that's not investing, I dont know what is.

On a personal note, I tend to agree with

Old South End Broadway

The broad comments are not accurate.

There are many that save and some that do not and they end up paying for it.

"Even if you're going to stay in the home long-term, why would you OVERPAY for it?"

Simple, some people, some, are caught up in the keeping up with the Joneses.

"Those after me were taught to spend. The destructive difference is just that simple."

I am from the generation before yours and tend to see things through averages and not at the moment.

If we look throughout history we see ups and we see downs and the wonderful economic term called corrections comes into play and it weeds out those that have over extended.

There are many people that many their investments quite correctly and suffer no ill from the downturn in the real estate market and whether or not if we like it, the investing in real estate can and does return to the buyer if all the losses are averaged out.

The same holds true for the stock market, some win and some loose and if we say that when we looses the market is a sham then we are not for the market.

There is risk in everything, although some, not all, extend the risk a bit too far.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

Toledo 29th in big cities in rates of foreclosure
2nd study finds shift in delinquency causes

FROM BLADE STAFF AND WIRE SERVICES

Ohio and Michigan remain among the states with the highest foreclosure filing rates for the first quarter, and Toledo ranked 29th out of the 100 largest cities, a new study shows.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070426/BUSINESS06/70...

I vetted this story and I believe I posted it when it came out.

This is the here and now. It is estimated that 1 in thirty mortgages in the county are either facing or will be facing foreclosure in the near future.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

And when we look at the article, thank fully, it lists the causes for the foreclosures.

"Marital difficulties accounted for 6 percent of late payments, down from 7.9 percent. Family illness, at 21 percent, excessive debt, at 14 percent, and "property problems" at 2.8 percent, all increased as causes, Freddie Mac said. They were cited in 19 percent, 11 percent, and 1.7 percent of late payments, respectively, in the previous five-year average."

And of course there will be some added foreclosures from the ARM debacle.

But the question that I still have is; what is a person to do? Buy and become a home debtor not an home owner or rent and make a person money?

Or are the foreclosures overall related to some larger shift in the economic world we live in, what with the decline in car sales as this area is some auto heavy.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

Well, there isn't any 30 minute sitcom answer to the situation and that's what MY generation would need to resolve the problem.

No one will want to hear this answer but we have to get out of the 'borrower' state of mind.

We need to immediately begin to educate the next generation that they need to NEVER BORROW MONEY WITH INTEREST ATTACHED. This has proven to be the modern day equivalent to indentured servitude.

We may or may not ever get out from our debt, but we can make sure the next generation knows not to ever do it.

They can buy a low cost fixer upper and fix it up. Parents can CHOOSE TO HELP THEIR KIDS MAKE THIS PURCHASE. Wow, what a concept. They can save through their early 20's and just pay cash for it.

Then they can sell the fixed up house and make a profit and buy a nicer house.

It's really that simple. If they don't take out credit cards, revolving credit accounts with retailers or a mortgage on a house - they'll never ever BE foreclosed on.

But it is also a situation that requires sacrifice, saving and goal setting. So, how many will do that rather than suffer through the long, long, long term repercussion of laziness, (as I am) which is a relationship with a bank who just dearly loves me.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

to borrow. My grandparents were married after (it was such a sexist time :-) he had built a home to take her to. He bought the land and then saved enough to build the house.

On the other side of the family, they bought a small house saved money and then bought two nicer houses.

Having a mortgage and credit cards has not always been the way of the world.

You have a point though, in every generation there were people who made bad choices. And failed as a result.

My kids don't have credit cards. They also don't have loans on the cars that they drive. My daughter will have a very small amount of debt when she graduates colleges, about 8k I believe.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

...to be quite honest, I wonder about that on a daily basis...

There are good reasons - but sometimes, the reasons NOT to stay seem overwhelming....

I feel the same way. I'm so torn sometimes. I have never in my life thought of leaving Toledo as much as I have in the last few years. The icing was this garbage tax.

With a shrinking population and rising costs for materials, trucks, maintenance of the aging fleet of vehicles, health care costs rising, contracts negotiated with leadership in denial about the decling tax base to which to draw on, the lack of economic development to enlarge the tax base to which to draw on, the lack of leadership to plan for the future, why is it surprising and a cause of concern when the city is faced with rising costs and diminished revenue, the need for some way to pay for city services is drafted and implemented and the citizens react and clamor for less to be taken from them.

I am no fan of paying more and which is why I contacted the city leadership, at least those that read e-mail, which is not enough and said to them there is another way.

But with leadership that is in denial, like the recent statements from the Mayor that the city is not declining, what we get is poor leadership, as before.

There have been many cities of all sizes that had too make tough choices and the leadership stood up and took the reins of leadership and did something about it.

Here the leadership cannot see the future as some are still focused on the past glory and standing of the city, like the Mayor's vision of Westgate as a 1950's strip mall and the developer of the river front area making comments that the area will look like Toledo of the 1900's.

We need progressive leadership that has a vision of the future and not clinging to present and past failures that are that; failures.

And why do I stay in Toledo, I have made my home here and until I am able to retire and move some where warm, I am staying put, the city is on a down cycle now and the way for the city is up, it will take time and the input from the citizens to the leadership is valuable, if they would listen more and talk less.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

"Home affordability should have meant DROPPING the prices of homes from a stable level, not increasing them."

Again supply and demand.

The demand went up and the lenders who practiced predatory lending.

Homes are in demand in areas and the prices go up, is this something new?

"Here's where we have to admit our cultural overextension and in effect, systemic American bankruptcy."

You read in that it is a cultural issue whereas I read in it is but a moment in time that has been repeated by cultures across the globe.

"For instance, why does a divorce result in bankruptcy and/or financial loss of the house? "

Well, when I divorced there was no bankruptcy and no financial loss of the house. Wide brush again, lumping all into one phrase.

"The hidden reason for that is Americans have become used to using 2 incomes in order to afford the basic level of living that 1 income before could purchase."

It must be hiding in plain site as it takes more income for some Americans, not all, to maintain the life style they choose.

"Why do people in general max out their ability to buy a home?"

Good question and maybe there are answers out there for all to read and not speculate about.

"In effect, I'm telling my fellow Americans that by NOT living in expectation of catastrophe, they're being foolish, as the statistics clearly show. One must expect failure in order to survive it."

Do you think you reach that wide of an audience? Are you financial adviser by trade? Have you met and consult with people?

"The war of the government, the elite, and a significant fraction of the middle and lower classes on those who save money."

The "war" is about persoanl choices and not a battle between people. People make good choices and they make bad choices.

"The banks will now have to be fixed by saving money and denying them the unsustainable profit margins from foolish spending."

And how we deny a private business the right to make money?

"You act like there's nothing under 125K, homewise."

No, there is not act or acting, I asked a question and the answer is?

"I've watched people turn their stupid little yuppie noses up at living around the Berdan Ave area. There are still a lot of options for buying a home well under that 125K amount. When you accept "fixer-upper", your options increase even further."

Maybe if you did not condemn those around you, you would see that they have a choice and it is theirs to make and not yours.

Sure people do get a fixer-upper if they have the means and desire to choose it. Is that wrong?

"The public attitude has gone completely elitist, and that's why their foreclosures and bankruptcies put a big smile on my face. Intentionally stupid people should suffer."

And therein lies the problem. Those that do not make the choices that you would or claim to are stupid. We are now elitist?

What happens to the person who has a great job and has saved for the down payment and then through no fault of their own the job vanishes and the jobs in the area are not there and the house is taken. Stupid person or victim of the area and market conditions.

"

the fonts do need enlarged, I noticed that about a week ago. Very hard to read now.

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

I see that Kateb has a list of states with better business climates. Here's the problem with Ohio: high taxes and license fees, unfriendly and unhelpful government agencies (try talking to the city permit people: it's a nightmare (thank God Corkie is gone)), corruption a la Taft, sloppy bookkeeping (you have to prove frequently to them that you paid them), the mayor substituting for an economic director is a joke, no help or encouragement from government, laws that limit the usage of private property, et al., et cetera ad nauseum. Small business, which provides most of the jobs, is sneered at by government. Every government agency has its hand out to collect the money, but none wants to encourage the production of it. I have come to believe that government is not the answer, it's the problem.

And it's not just government. The "majority" doesn't seem to appreciate that entrepreneurs have risked their money here to provide a service to the populace. The smoking ban is an example. These guys have spent money to run a business, and the public backhands them by presenting them with another obstacle to making a go of it.

I understand that Russia is a good place to do business. I wonder who won the Cold War and the Battle for Democracy? Doesn't look like we did.

"[S]hit hole real estate market"? If your house doesn't sell, then the price is too high. Drop the price. Do I really need to explain such economics?

Oh, what? You have some sort of problem with that? Well, *I* had a BIG problem watching people sell $60K homes for $90K+. Nobody but us "losers" and "bitter renters" were complaining then!

I'm getting my revenge. Holy shit, I LOVE IT! Toledo home prices soared after 1998, concurrently with the economy tanking. Logic says that home prices can't continue to increase when the area is in severe economic trouble. Arguably, they shouldn't have increased AT ALL. But, logic wasn't involved in the criminally-easy flow of money called "cheap credit" from the banks.

If anyone here recalls my postings on ToledoTalk about a year ago now, I asked quite blatantly of the middle-aged and retiring homeowners (Marie especially) as to who they thought would cash them out of their homes. Their kids are poor and will remain so at least for some time. Who's going to buy all these heavily overpriced homes? When I saw homes around Toledo after the year 2001, I commonly found them to be at least 50% overpriced, often 100%. Cheap credit was the only thing that allowed such homes to sell. Cheap credit, however, can't last. It's over and the time for pain must begin.

And, I'm OK with that. The pain comes from the same "unfair" market forces that drive prices up to begin with. By allowing a BOOM in prices, you must accept a BUST.

... is correspondent with avoiding ARMageddon. It's not my renting that brings the smile. It's the set of foreclosures and financial agonies of others that brightens my day. Point blank: Your homes are overpriced and I don't care if you're upside-down on your mortgages. You paid too much for your homes, or have tried to sell them for too much, and "too much" means firmly outside the income track of the area. You've bid against prudent men. You're fighting the government's and elite's War on Savers, and you're on the wrong side.

Some people might find this attitude mean. However, there's nothing meaner than a bunch of fucking flippers using criminally-excessive credit to bid up the cost of homes for EVERYONE. Homes are NOT an investment, since they only track incomes over time. They HOLD value, but aren't profit centers. This makes sense since a home is NOT an income-producing asset; the only way it produces income is by rent, and rents also tend to track mortgages. A home is for LIVING in, and that's not a profitable enterprise ... because if it is, it only creates class separation.

The average person coming out of college goes through 5 to 7 different careers before they retire to Al Gore's global warming.

How many houses do you think they go through. The days of working one career and living 2 hours from your mother in law before you retire are over.

My guess is that each home they sell from being single, job transfer, married, job transfer, married with kids and pets, married and free, married and retired, and living with comfort is an asset that needs to be sold at a respectable profit.

Guestzero, I do agree with you on flipping, self responsibility, high taxes, thought out cash flow, and the need to save & invest EARLY & OFTEN. Love your passion and getting you crazy on economic development. Probably see you in few years living in Perrysburg.

... which means you have to read EVERY phrase and then judge the whole. Picking out one sentence, out of context, gets you a raspberry:

{raspberry}

Back on topic, I ALSO said:

"[T]he only way [a house] produces income is by rent, and rents also tend to track mortgages."

If that's the kind of business you want to be in, knock yourself out. I didn't say people couldn't be landlords. What I'm saying instead that becoming a homeDEBTOR (not a homeOWNER) is stupid and any rational analysis of the current economy tells us that such oversubscription has produced remarkable harm to everyone.

Again, homes are NOT investments, in the sense that investments are used today. In order to pay off, they are held for a much longer term than any other investment today. On the basis of closing costs alone, a home should be held for 5+ years. YET, we have people "buying" (i.e. prostituting homes through pimps called "banks") homes and flipping them on much shorter timeframes.

The historical record is clear: home prices track incomes. PERIOD. That's not a retirement investment by any means (unless you go reverse mortgage in your retirement -- which means family wealth is denuded, please note!).

P.S. For those who don't know, the dipshit Governor of Massachusetts just declared a set of moratoriums on foreclosures in the state. Foreclosures can be further delayed by up to 2 months. This is a howl, since the people in such foreclosures in such an expensive-RE state are largely just as unable to meet their mortgage payments 2 months from now, AS NOW. Delaying foreclosures like that will only make the MA housing bubble last longer. Hell, I should be sending Gov. Patrick a thank-you note for extending the pain and for either sending prices lower in the long run, or extending the period of low prices.

Firstly, the banks are constantly urging you to take out a HELOC. "Make your money work for you!" "It's just SITTING THERE!" Etc.

Secondly, when you try to buy an asset whose price is decreasing, you're upside-down eventually and are markedly losing a return on this so-called investment. Even if you're going to stay in the home long-term, why would you OVERPAY for it?

Thirdly, there's a big difference between a mortgage you can pay off and one you can't. Furthermore, the more downpayment you make, the less you're paying a bank for the privilege. Home equity is supposed to be YOURS, not the bank's.

Fourthly, people tend to buy far more home than they need, use or is honestly fiscally sound for them. That only increases the price, pushing off even further their ability to make sufficient down payment, even to buy it outright.

Lastly, since a home is the thing in your life that costs the most to buy, why on earth put most of it on credit? People who are strapped for a large downpayment should still be working on paying off the principal early, hence should be making EXTRA payments towards that end. I'm just not seeing it.

All through the 20th Century, loan terms got longer and longer. The American savings rate become abysmal. We're not managing our assets appropriately. Hence, from all my points, I use the term homeDEBTOR instead of homeOWNER. Too many of these people will never manage to pay off a home, making them little better than renters -- renting from a landlord called a BANK. 2nd+ mortgages, terrible initial terms, HELOCs and bad employment prospects will ensure that.

I don't know what or how it happened, but the lessons of saving left off with my generation, roughly. I was taught to save. Those after me were taught to spend. The destructive difference is just that simple.

Well, Billy, you aren't buyin' and flippin' homes with your good credit rating, so as far as America is concerned, you're not investing at all. The word "investment" became corrupted with the seedy desire for huge risks. You're doing the right thing. I have no complaint about a person like you.

Considering a full 20% of the homes for sale in Toledo (or LC?) are foreclosures, I'd have to say you're living in denial.

I'm sure you're missing the point that throughout the 20th Century, the LTVs for homes kept climbing. It's only recently that zero-down mortgages have become so prevalent, which is just accelerating the financial decline of the middle class.

This is not about a correction. This is a severe crash of the middle class. It is going to be larger by far than the dotcom, which itself was a much larger fiasco than the S&L failure. Our crashes are themselves a bubble that is continuing to expand. Jefferson warned us that we might wake up slaves on the continent our fathers conquered. He was right to suspect such, and we didn't listen to him, just like we didn't listen to Ike about the MIC.

Tell me again about 'risk' when people's ARMs adjust and they have to undergo foreclosure since the are NO loan terms that would allow them to make payments from the first to the last. This isn't about risk. This is about a cultural bankruptcy.

An egg came first, it hatched, it started to make choices, took responsibility, found out how to pay for college, started saving, started investing, and started living.

A chicken blames poor choices on everything else and doesn't take personal responsibility.

Well so far, I'm 16 yrs out from college. 1st career was 5 years at Fortune 75 and 3 states - rented in state 1 & 2, bought 1st starter house in state 3 - OH. Got married - started paying off starter house. Started carrer number 2 with small business family style owners for 5 years - paid off house. Started Carreer # 3 with Fortune 225 last 6 years. Sold starter house with good profit - Bought 5 bedroom colonial - have 2 great kids. I'm working to pay off House within 5 years. When I retire, probably go to a 1 level ranch up here and a condo in the south with good hospitals.

There you go - So 16 years from school, 3 careers, 2 houses. Next 24 years probaly 2 -3 more properties and 2 to 3 more careers. Funny thing, I didn't use anything I learned in college. Everything I learned to make money came from work. I guess the piece of paper helped and I know the parties were fun.

Optimism comes from faith, family, friends, hard work, and knowing how to enjoy with what you have.

Fwiw, unless you were over-charged, Whole Life is a much better concept than the now-ubiqutous Term Life.

Simply put, you could pay for 40 years on term life, croak the day after the term expires, and you get not a penny for your troubles.

Whole life is more expensive, but if you dig enough, you can find fair and equitable policies that will allow you to build cash value in the account and have the ASSURANCE that your INSURANCE will actually pay out.

"We need to immediately begin to educate the next generation that they need to NEVER BORROW MONEY WITH INTEREST ATTACHED. This has proven to be the modern day equivalent to indentured servitude."

I do not see the problem with borrowing money with interest attached if it "We may or may not ever get out from our debt, but we can make sure the next generation knows not to ever do it."

My family and I are. We use the services of a local and well respected agency to reduce our expenses.

"They can buy a low cost fixer upper and fix it up. Parents can CHOOSE TO HELP THEIR KIDS MAKE THIS PURCHASE. Wow, what a concept. They can save through their early 20's and just pay cash for it."

And by the time, if inflation is factored in then the savings would be more due to not only buying the house but also the cost of the rehab would need to be factored.

"Then they can sell the fixed up house and make a profit and buy a nicer house."

Maybe yes, maybe no.

"It's really that simple. If they don't take out credit cards, revolving credit accounts with retailers or a mortgage on a house - they'll never ever BE foreclosed on."

It seems simple on the surface but I would think that when life smacks us in the chops simplicity takes a back seat to reality.

All I see from the current crisis is the same as most crises, people making bad decisions and a verbal dust up and then when the dust settles the same cycle of growth and contraction occurs and almost each generation reacts as if it is something new.

If we look at history we see the same cycle repeated.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

my family is all here, with the exception of several in Karloffornia, or I'd leave this miserable state in a heartbeat.

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

And of course those of us who bought our homes some time ago at a modest price have seen large increases in our valuations. This means for tax purposes our homes are valued at more than we can sell them for - so we end up with hefty increases in our property taxes from this boom brought about through easy money and subprime mortgages. It will be interesting to see what happens to valuations next time when we go through the reappraisal process (2009).

Guestzero: I have stated in a previous post in another thread that I believe that the value of what I sell is determined by the

Old South End Broadway

GuestZero, I am afraid you may be right. In my neighborhood I see empty homes that invite squatters, and arsonists. A home at the corner of Walbridge and Langdon (not far from where I live) caught fire, and the tenants (including a wheelchair bound diabetic) had to find another home to live. This was after this house had been

Old South End Broadway

This place is full of people predicting the future. The thing that I love so much is that every one of you says it like you KNOW FOR CERTAIN. You don't ever accept the possibility that you might be wrong.

Now, I'm guilty of the same head-strong ways, but usually, I'm talking about the PRESENT. You and the others in the anti-smoking-ban clubhouse refuse to accept the possibility that your crystal ball may be a bit fuzzy.

Well Shane you're partially right.

Truthfully insurance is just that insurance. You don't necessarily need to make $$ off insurance for it to serve it's purpose.

Under a 40 yr term life policy the assumption is that at the end of it you are not in debt. Most people after 40 yrs of term life own their own home, don't have student loans, and are reaping their retirement accounts.

So their assets outweigh their debts so really with that true why would you need more insurance especially if you've prepaid for your funeral arrangements?

But this all comes down to one's own philosophy on money and insurance.

Where most American's lose out is they are underinsured... and not through life insurance.

As my own family found out last year the average working American is over 6 times more likely to become disabled than to die. My father couldn't work for many months last year due to a heart attack and he didn't have diability insurance. He naively believed his union and company would compensate him. They did... to the tune of $300 a month. Not helpful when you're used to a check over almost 25 times that.

Personally I used his financial misgivings to help me to prevent the same mistakes. First off, I purchased disability insurance. Secondly I don't buy into the mantra of buying a home, keeping it for 30 years (time value of money tables will show how a 100K home costs over 400K when you don't periodically move) and selling to retire. And thirdly I rely only on one person for the responsibility of my retirement... ME! I don't rely on social security or even a pension, as too many found out these are unreliable. However if I manage my own 401K's, TSP's, and Roth IRA's the only way I get screwed out of $$ is essentially if I do it to myself.

MikeyA

MikeyA

"Considering a full 20% of the homes for sale in Toledo (or LC?) are foreclosures, I'd have to say you're living in denial."

I would dare say that you are caught up in an emotional state that clouds your ability to think clearly, how's that?

I was referring to the country as a whole. Toledo is but a drop in the bucket of the picture of the economic outlook of the country.

"Tell me again about 'risk' when people's ARMs adjust and they have to undergo foreclosure since the are NO loan terms that would allow them to make payments from the first to the last."

I never told you anything about anything. You are the person making the statements as if all that is written is how it is.

How do I or anybody else know what was available to the people taking the loan or as you have pointed maybe they were not smart enough to make an informed decision or maybe just maybe they wanted the dream so much to own a home so bad that they made a bad choice.

Or perhaps the system was corrupt and needed stronger rules in place but then the government would come into the picture and we do not want more government when people take advantage of others.

What is the answer to the dilemma? What do you propose?

Not owning a home? Not going into debt? Renting and making a landlord rich?

What is the answer?

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

Term Life Rocks. Its cheap and it has purpose for those with spouses and kids. The point is that it covers your loved ones up to the point your nest egg is complete, i.e. retirement. At that point, everyone should be secured and life insurance should not be necessary, unless you want to offset some serious estate taxes.

I much rather invest my hard earned money with something that can grow substantial over time rather than a money-sucking whole life policy. C-mon ShaneH, do the math. Do you really need life insurance when your retired?

Take it a step further and title everything under a living trust, including all of your assets, i.e. house, car, investments, etc... and make as beneficiariy to insurance policies and retirement plans.

Here's something to make Guest Zero happy about return on investment. Personally I believe real estate is all about location to garner future profit, the article is an interesting read to support those that rent:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/HomebuyingGuide/WhyRentToGe...

This is OT, but in case you missed it, last year the "Chicken and Egg" debate was settled. There is actually scientific consensus that the egg came first. ...Now you can finally sleep at night ;)

Brassmonkey: I can

Old South End Broadway

20 years ago my freind went to Michigan State. What his father did was buy a house close to campus when my friend was in 9th grade. They worked on the house together, bonded, and then rented it out to 4-6 college students. In the summer they would work on the house together, then rent it out. They used the rent to pay down on the house. Pretty soon they were getting a few students to rent during summer terms.

This went on til my friend went to MSU. His freshmen year he had to live at the dorms. The house rent started paying for his dorm living expense and books. His sophomore and remaining years he lived in the house and the rent started paying for a good chunk of his tuition and beers. He had free living expense with others paying down his mortgage.

About 5 years ago he got married. That house was completely paid off and completed paying all his tuition. He sold the house at a nice profit with a track record of making money and used the money to buy him and his wife their first house.

In the end his Dad spent some quality years teaching his son about taking care of things, making money, and building wealth. Probably learned more from his Dad than college. In the end, college was free. His Dad told him to keep the original 20% as college graduation gift eventhough the son had returned multiples on their investment together.

They did this all before the 529b plans became available.

Just thought it was a cool way to pay for college and make some cash.

There are many lots in the North End that had boarded up and abanoded houses and where torn down.

And in their place sit new homes built from the ground up by local community development groups.

It can and does happen but with less and less grants and funding there are not as many now.

Hopefully in the future there will be more.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

How could you make a statement like that? Isn't it entirely subjective? Or do you just want to disagree with me because I take you to task elsewhere on this website?

In particular, whole life has cash value. Term life doesn't. This is sorta like the difference between renting a home and buying one. For some people, renting is far and away the right move, but usually you're better-off building equity in a home.

My Grandpa sold life and disability insurance for, among other companies, Paul Revere and Sovereign for basically my entire life. My point being that his professional advice to me was that at my age I purchase a whole life policy. You say "money-sucking" but since I'm young it's pretty cheap: it costs me $18 per month per $100k in coverage. If I was underwriting it at 48 (instead of 24) the same policy would cost me 5-6x as much.

"I am glad that the city has a demolition program for properties whose owners can