It has come to this in Amerika today....if you're a smoker

This comes from the FORCES website (www.forces.org)-just sickening.:

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March 16 [02:00 GMT] - New York: smoker killed for lighting a cigarette - Eight days have elapsed. We have waited to publish this to see if it would be reported by any medium other than the NY Post. Nothing happened. He was just a smoker, after all – and no matter if he was just 23 with a life in front of him: he would have died “prematurely”, anyway. He was in a night club, having a good time with his friends. He provoked no one. He just lit up a cigarette. That was provocation enough.

He did not see it coming – death, that is, in the form of a pool cue that smashed his skull. The cue was held by a bouncer – a bouncer who had learned to hate smoking and smokers - to the point of killing. A bouncer who had been instigated by criminal health authorities who keep on lying about passive smoke, and by irresponsible media who parrot those lies - relentlessly. So a young man died, the life support machine unplugged after he was declared brain dead at the hospital. No matter, he was a small loss anyway: he was just a smoker.

No votes yet

I wonder what really happened. That is by far the most biased, politically oriented article I've ever read.

{Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!}

Some assbag killing someone else over smoking does NOT make a real problem. After all, we're far more frequently assaulted by the threat and exercise of government violence and fines when we try to enjoy our natural liberties.

Junta says this story is the "most biased, politically oriented article I've ever read". Here's the story from the New York Post:

By IKIMULISA LIVINGSTON

March 8, 2007 -- A strip-club bouncer could face murder charges now that a customer he clubbed with a pool cue was taken off life support, officials said yesterday.

Cops busted bouncer Cesar Paz shortly after the Feb. 25 brawl at Goldfingers in Queens that sent Besnik Prebreza to St. John's Hospital.

Doctors declared Prebreza, 23, brain dead and wanted him taken off life support almost immediately. But his family won a court order to have an independent medical team examine the gravely injured carpenter from Ridgewood.

After the family's own neurologists said there was no hope, the relatives agreed to end life support on Tuesday.

Paz has been charged with attempted murder and two counts of assault. A spokesman for the Queens district attorney said prosecutors will now file murder charges.

Prebreza, who was at Goldfingers that night with his brother and a friend, drew the wrath of bouncers after lighting a cigarette, cops said. http://www.nypost.com/seven/03082007/news/regionalnews/pool_cue_bouncer_...

Doesn't sound like an editorial to me.

This is a whole lot less about smoking than it is about a bouncer killing a guy inside a strip club.

Are smokers persecuted? You bet they are.

I don't believe that this guy was killed because he lit up. He got killed because the bouncer is one murderous SOB who wanted to bounce a pool cue off his head.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Some of history's great martyrs: Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King, Thomas More, and now the guy who was killed in a New York strip club for lighting up....

If you smoke, carry a pool stick.

they look down on the folks that it is popular to look down in the current political environment. Right now - it happens to be smokers. So a bouncer caught the currently politically correct wave and smoked a smoker.

Some of your humanity is really overwhelming. It really is.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

who came running out of the woodwork thinking it was ok this guy was killed because he was a smoker.

Tells alot about a person. A whole lot.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Fat people are the next 'hated tobacco user'. Even the Blade had an editorial about obesity & how much it costs. I wonder how junta will rationalize a fat person getting killed for trying to take a donut. I wonder how many discrimination lawsuits will fly when businesses like Scott will start firing overweight employees like they did smokers so they can save money on insurance premiums. (And obesity kills & costs more than smokers do, they should in all fairness, fired the fat people before the smokers - or at least fired them both.) What I find ironic, is that Ohio is one of the worst in the country for bankrupsy, foreclosures & unemployment - and yet the pass this ban that will only ensure an increase in all of them. I just learned that the owners of Gumbo's (they are friends of a close friend) just sold Gumbo's due to the smoking ban - seems the Sin club couldn't survive with it. I realize that the bridge being down didn't help either, but this is one of the first, and worst, cases of Toledo smoking ban damage - with much more to come. My niece works at Tangos & business has come to a screeching stop, her tips are almost non-existant - no business, waitstaff has been cut severely. Again, people like junta will blame it on the bridge - but I've heard too many stories like this where the bridge wasn't a factor. Ohio is also one of the worst in the country for micro pollutants. I just read a study that said our tap water has more dangerous chemicals than second hand smoke. I also read a medical statistic that said that of all the people who die of pulminary or lung disease, 25 percent are smokers. That makes me assume that the other 75 percent are NOT smokers. So what caused the deaths? Obesity is my guess. Everybody who's carrying more than 10 extra pounds, be careful about reaching for that donut - you may get whalloped by a pool cue.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18085108&BRD=2731&PAG=461&dept...

Prebreza was at the club, located at 92-77 Queens Blvd., with his brother, Afrim, and a female friend when a bouncer told him he could not smoke inside. The patron then stubbed out his cigarette, but soon incurred the bouncer’s anger by lighting another. Authorities said a shoving match ensued, during which Afrim Prebreza jumped on the bouncer’s back. As the rowdy patrons were being kicked out of the club, Paz reportedly followed them to the sidewalk and struck Besnik Prebreza on the back of the head with a pool cue.

Sounds alot like junta's description...

Pink Slip

McCaskey - where do you see that I addressed ANYTHING to you?

Makes your response almost sound like a guilt reflex or something.

Not to hurt your feelings, but you know everything isn't about you.

Was not thinking of you at all when I made the post. Rather the online comments accompanying the news reports on those services.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

I'll yell it, so all you rabid smoker-haters can't ignore it like you did the last time:

WITHOUT A DISCRIMINATORY AND NEEDLESS SMOKER BAN FORCED ON PRIVATE ENTERPRISE-ESPECIALLY AN ADULT VENUE, THIS YOUNG MAN IS STILL WITH US, BECAUSE THE INCIDENT NEVER HAPPENS.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

And you're just wrong. If you had some kind of guilt response withOUT seeing your name there - that's far beyond my being able to address.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

I had thought we had a truce. As I say - not about you. A commentary on people's motives and bias.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Seriously? Using this as fodder against the smoking bans is a ridiculous lot of crud. A bar stockman with a long criminal past hitting someone outside a strip club after a serious altercation inside - horrible event. Atrocious. Murder is an awful thing...To twist it into a "see what happens with smoking bans" statement - yikes. This is easily about how NOT to handle arguments, the dangers of getting into fights, how not to conduct discourse, how NOT to bounce at a club (strip club no less), I'd be with it, but to say this is really about the cigarette smoking is very misguided.

Was the barman a smoker himself? We don't know...
Is this a bar that perhaps would have been non-smoking anyway? I've been to a bachelor's party or two, and been to places that voluntarily do not allow smoking...If so, then it wouldn't be about smoking bans anyway...Again, key is we don't know...

And comparing gathering information from a pro-anything WEBSITE to a regionally well-regarded newspaper is ridiculous. No matter what some may say about the quality of a source like the Blade (and many would disagree), it has a level of professionalism that is qualitately above a source like www.forces.org. And that goes for other propoganda-driven information outlets, not just for smoking issues.

Paz, 29, who worked as a bar stockman at Goldfingers, was arrested on March 1 and charged with attempted murder and two counts of assault. A spokesperson for the Queens District Attorney's office said prosecutors would now file murder charges against Paz.

Police sources said Prebreza, his brother and a female friend arrived at Goldfingers at about midnight on February 25 and a bouncer told Prebreza to put out his cigarette. He did so, but quickly lit up another cigarette, provoking a shoving match with the bouncer, the sources said.

When Prebreza's brother, Afrim, jumped on the bouncer's back, the bouncer tossed the brothers and the woman out of the club, the sources said. An irate Paz lunged at the trio, smashing Prebreza in the back of the head with the pool cue, police said.

Law enforcement sources said Paz has a lengthy criminal history, including seven sealed criminal cases in Queens. 115th Precinct

you mean...like Blade editorials?

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

The first story sounded even more extreme than a editorial. I liken it to a PETA or an Al Gore environmental press release. By that I mean there is a bit of truth and then that truth is stretched and distorted to make their point.

The second story wasn't an editorial at all. It presented the facts with no assumptions or opinions.

I'm willing to bet that the bouncer didn't just hit the guy with a cue stick because he was smoking. It still doesn't justify why he did it, but there's more to the story than the initial story says. This FORCES group has decided to take a little truth and stretch it into a story documenting how smokers are now persecuted like blacks under Jim Crow.

Substitute after lighting a cigarette for grabbing a dancer's ass, mouthing off to the bouncer, getting drunk and disorderly, or any of a dozen possible situations that occur between people who frequent places like strip clubs.
The overly-aggresive bouncer, probably hopped up on meth or X, would have acted the same.
Those poor, poor smokers, having their "rights" violated...what a joke.

Don't bet that he wasn't killed because he lit up. The antismokers are like the guys blowing people up in car bombs over in the Near East. They're rabid.

This isn't a question of humanity. Nobody is happy somebody died.
Taking an isolated incident and trying to make a larger issue out of it is the point.
And, we still don't even know all the facts that happened in the one incident. The fact that the incident began because of someone smoking dosn't mean there weren't all kinds of underlying factors into why it escalated to the point it did.
It was posted here with an obvious agenda and the agenda's becoming a broken record.

Without a smoker ban in ADULT venues, and without rabid smoker-hater attitudes fired by close to 20 years of media brainwashing, the young man would still be with us. McCasket, Kooz, OhioKat, Hey, and any and all other rabid smoker-haters on this blog, TT, and elsewhere: Your fingerprints are on that pool cue too. It never ceases to amuse me, but:

The rabid smoker-haters:
"That's from a 'pro-smoker' (some are not just about smoking, but pro-freedom/private property rights) source, so it's totally worthless.It's utter trash."

The very same people: "But that's from the ACS, the AHA, or the ALA, or J.R. Block, or some other newpaper editorial. These are trustworthy sources, and must never be questioned. It's gospel."

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

who came running out of the woodwork thinking it was ok this guy was killed because he was a smoker.

When and where did I say anything like that?

I said the following: (a) we don't know all the details of what happened and (b) people are ridiculous in trying to take this one incident and make more of it than it is.

Are you referring to the "martyr" statement?

YOU AND YOUR BUDDIES are the ones trying to make a martyr out of this unfortunate person by claiming his death is the work of anti-smoking "jihadists" and other such nonsense and yes, I was mocking YOU, not the person who died.

You people have taken leave of whatever senses you may at one time had.

First thing I said, to my oldest son, after the election: " We're one of the most f*****d-up and financially dpressed states in the god-damned union, so the genius voters vote down gambling, but pass this AND increase the minimum wage (which I was not totally against). Yeah, that'll all help the state. Jesus H. Christ, are people selfish and stupid."
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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

... is that they can't hide. They're readily identifiable. Additionally, obese people generally feel some shame from their condition, so that implies that you can target them and not experience a full defense from them. Finally, there is a public connection, in that we can prove that the obese put a load upon healthcare services.

Like smokers, it's a target population that the Neo-Liberals can only dream of.

The bad thing about targeting the obese is that there is a readily provable link to food, and although voluntary, the link can be scientifically established. This is what worked so well against the tobacco companies (note that we're busily raping them economically, as we speak), except that it's going to be far more difficult to bring charges against Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, and all the rest of the food industrialists. Other than them, the rest of the food industry still commands raw financial power which -- and this is key -- is common to most Americans, obese or not.

So, targeting obesity isn't going to be as immensely lucrative as it was for targeting smoking. There will still be a good returns on targeting the obese for purposes of inflating their insurance premiums and rejecting their employment applications ... it just won't be as fiscally widespread.

Of course it does, because there was always alot more to this story than the disceased simply "being a smoker" and being struck by a pool cue "just for being a smoker."

loaded with guilt feelings, which is why he was one of the first to jump in and poo-pooh the post. I repeat-their fingerprints are all on that pool cue-as enablers.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Well, you posted this:

It's just the control freaks
Submitted by kateb on Sat, 2007-03-17 20:50.
they look down on the folks that it is popular to look down in the current political environment. Right now - it happens to be smokers. So a bouncer caught the currently politically correct wave and smoked a smoker.

Some of your humanity is really overwhelming. It really is.

And then I posted this:

reply
silliness
Submitted by McCaskey on Sun, 2007-03-18 10:56.
This isn't a question of humanity. Nobody is happy somebody died.
Taking an isolated incident and trying to make a larger issue out of it is the point.
And, we still don't even know all the facts that happened in the one incident. The fact that the incident began because of someone smoking dosn't mean there weren't all kinds of underlying factors into why it escalated to the point it did.
It was posted here with an obvious agenda and the agenda's becoming a broken record.

and then you posted this:

edit | reply
No - the point is
Submitted by kateb on Sun, 2007-03-18 16:55.
who came running out of the woodwork thinking it was ok this guy was killed because he was a smoker.

Tells alot about a person. A whole lot.

So, you were talking about the bouncer??? Or Junta, Hey, or OhioKat?

OK, well, I don't feel guilty (but thanks for your concern); really, it's not always about me? (what a bummer) and as happens every so often following your posts, I just end up confused.

But I've seen this movie before, over on TT, with you in a starring role. Have a good day.

WITHOUT A SMOKING BAN IN PLACE (IN ADULT VENURES, YET)-THIS INCIDENT NEVER HAPPENS, AND THE KID IS STILL ALIVE AND WITH HIS FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

And yeah, that's really a great statement- fucking J.R. Block's brainwashing editorials are more truthful , honest, and reliable than Forces-you dumb deluded smoker-hating fuck.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

I suppose yes, because everyone knows that an editorial is an opinion. You, however, have presented this as fact.

Substitute after lighting a cigarette for grabbing a dancer's ass, mouthing off to the bouncer, getting drunk and disorderly, or any of a dozen possible situations that occur between people who frequent places like strip clubs. The overly-aggresive bouncer, probably hopped up on meth or X, would have acted the same.

Exactally.

You don't know anything about your hypothetical "any of a dozen possible situations that occur". Those are dreamfarts coming up from your brain. The fact is, a bouncer DID kill a guy for lighting up. And it's not a joke that this guy's rights were violated, namely, the right to life.

Please tell me you were using misplaced hyperbole.

Right on, Darkseid. Apparently, if the news scenario fits the Jihadists' anti-tobacco perspective, then it must be true. If it doesn't fit, then it's suspect and must be rejected. The fact is, the guy was KILLED because he lit up tobacco.

The commentators mentioned by Darkseid seem to be willing to excuse a MURDER because there MAY have been other extenuating circumstances, to wit, "but I bet he was drunk and was asked to put his cigarette out. He most likely refused and became angry. In this anger, he probably started yelling at the bouncers" (Junta). These statements are flatulent vapors emanating from Junta's brain. Read the story! He was killed because he smoked. Anti-smokers appear to be the new jihadists.

Well, the election result is from a lot of:

1. fear (born of economic collapse), and
2. ignorance (born of terrible public schools and TV-ization), and
3. the bastard child "______" of that ignorance.

I don't know what the bastard child should be called, but it involves being socially conservative and fiscally liberal. Perhaps it should be called Imperially Retarded.

When the canvassers were going around to collect signatures for the Smoke Free Ohio bullshit, they should have been laughed off of 99.9% of the porches of Ohioans, since any such initiative is thoroughly against our history of essential liberties and the formation of voluntary associations. In short, 99.9% of Ohioans should have been educated in how American culture requires tolerance ... yea, even and especially tolerance of the things that are popularly looked down upon. Liberty is not something that is up to a majority to rule; the formation of the American Republic was clearly based upon rights both inalienable and self-evident.

Well, "was". I'm afraid that the American Republic is dead in all but name, and an Empire stands in its stead. We're Imperial subjects, not Republic citizens.

Block's rag and the American Cancer Society do. Sorry, tried to dig up more info, but since it's an older story by now, couldn't find anything. You'll make a hell of a lawyer with the hours you keep. 8^D

It goes the other way, too, though...ever hear about the new york bar bouncer that was killed by two patrons when he told them to put their smokes out(around 2004, I think)? THE POINT-neither of these people would be dead, had it not been for an idiotic law. More ' unintended consequences'.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Whatever you say Pete.

This from the same guy who thought I was talking about an article he pulled up, and not the article that was posted to start the thread. You seem to lack some credibility Pete.

That's a fact? Could've fooled me. Your "source" is a mouthpiece that claims smoking doesn't caues disease. Now, there's a credible source! All we know for sure is that a bouncer killed a person with a cue stick.

Maybe, it seems so irrational to me for someone to get hit over the head with a pool cue for smoking, that I thought there had to be more to it. If he actually was hit over the head for smoking, then I'm very concerned. But of course, you can pick and choose from what I said what you want. I clearly made the same point above.

You'll never read about the unpleasant aftermath of bans in the MSM. Stories like this are quickly buried.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

I agree with you that this is certainly a senseless death. But I imagine the facts of what happened are a little different than presented. I'm just guessing, but I bet he was drunk and was asked to put his cigarette out. He most likely refused and became angry. In this anger, he probably started yelling at the bouncers. The bouncers probably tried to remove him, where he likely started fighting back. After all this, the bouncer probably hit him over the head with the cue. The bouncer had no right to do this, and was very wrong. But to say this was a result of him simply lighting up a cigarette seems extraordinarily irrational. If that was the case, then I am very concerned. In either situation, the bouncer should not have hit him with a pool cue.

decided to take a little truth and stretch it into a story documenting how smokers are now persecuted like blacks under Jim Crow.
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Unfortunately, anyone with half a brain knows that they ARE. I didn't create that scenario in this worthless world today, merely comment on it.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

What comment does it give when smokers are treated like a subhuman class, but THESE swine are defended?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18029
The ACLU, by the way, to the best of my knowledge, has never done ONE thing to defend a smoker or group of smokers.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

The guy who was killed is Nick Prebreza. I grew up with him and knew him for many years. Interestingly enough, he went to jail himself for killing a local teen with his friends while they were teens themselves by beating him with a bat. Let me tell you that this death has nothing to do with smoking and everything to do with the kind of guy Nick was and the kind of guy Cesar Paz ( the man who killed him) was. This could have happened over ginger ale. Saying that it is a smokers rights issue is wrong and very offensive.

Here is a link to an article about Nick's early adventures:
https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/ny_local/2001/02/01/2001-02-01_witn...

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