Carty to reintroduce parental responsibility act

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Looks like Carty is going to reintroduce the parental responsiblity act. Does anyone have any more details?

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070227/DEVELOPIN...

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That'll be sure to piss off all the ones who figure the cops death was due to other cops, Dressel himself, or schoolteachers...

Never in a million years will this go thru.

That word - accountability is a fightin word to too many here in Xanadu.

"What is insufficient about the current curfew law?"

A big problem with Toledo's police is a lack of enforcement, since enforcement requires manpower and the TPD is undermanned. So, if we're not enforcing the law anyway, what's the point of creating yet another law that will ALSO not be enforced?

A second offense could land a parent in jail for 30 days.
If there are two parents which one serves the time?
If there is just one then who is going to take care of the kid(s) while the parent is in jail?
What happens when they get out and find out they've lost their job and perhaps their home because they are a month behind on their bills?

I'm not saying that parents should be left off the hook but I hardly see jail time as the solution and what happens when the parent IS trying to keep a check on their kid but its not helping? If your teen is habitually sneaking out in the middle of the night short of chaining them in their room ( yeah CSB will love that) what are you supposed to do? Sit up in their room all night watching them? If you drop your child off at school and watch them walk inside and they leave school an hour later what could you have done to prevent that? Quit your job and go back to high school?

Ok so you want parents to be held accountable but what resources is the city and the TPD going to use to help them?

if you are already not enforcing the curfew law - which is pretty damn simple - who in their right mind would think anything else is going to be enforced? Particularly something MORE difficult TO enforce?

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

"who in their right mind would think anything else is going to be enforced?"

Our Mayor. In addition to driving around and looking for city workers goofing off he will also enforce the curfew law.

And this is the same administration that proposed this; "The administration proposed combining police and fire dispatch operations to save $364,000, and canceling plans for hiring new police and fire recruits in 2007."

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070117/NEWS16/70...

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

that this stuff is just making me nuts lately. Really. The more you dig into what is going on - it makes no sense at all. And the political infighting and posturing that goes on - it is no wonder that these people get ANY work done at all.

So, my apologies all around for being so short tempered lately. But it almost seems like there is no way to get people to just do their jobs....it's amazing to me.

This last year has been a real eye-opening and frustrating experience.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

I'm shocked that anybody could even joke that this cop's death was his, or any other cops or teacher's fault. Comments like that disgrace his name. Too easy to blame teachers - and not fair. Teachers end up with classrooms of kids who've been taught no respect for authority, bad manners, bad behaviour, big mouths - behaviours they learned at home. Cartys' idea sounds good on the surface - but there's too many variables to make it work fairly. I was ready to put the blame on this kids' mom, but the way the principal of the school talks, his mom did try. Sometimes parents can do everything right, and still end up with a kid who sneaks out at night, or lies. Short of caging our children or doing without any sleep ourselves so we can watch them 24/7 - sometimes shit happens, kids get in trouble. I am NOT suggesting that this kid just got into a bit of trouble - It sounds like he had a history of it. I can only speak from personal experience on this. My oldest son was the picture of a perfect kid - honor's student, star wrestler, didn't smoke, drink or do drugs, avid reader, accomplished musician - was, and is now, the most ethical, honest, moral, generous, loving people I know - he was, and is now, awe inspiring - and everybody who knows him says the same about him. However, when he was almost 18, he'd gotten heavily in debt (girlfriend had a baby), and scared he'd go to jail over bounced checks & child support he'd gotten behind in, he panicked & committed a few armed robberies (a cousin gave him the gun, he'd never held a gun in his life - was anti violence) - got caught, did 10 yrs in maximum security prison 4 hours from Toledo. My point is this - sometimes kids give no reason to not trust them & sometimes they do betray that trust; sometimes it's meeting the wrong friends; sometimes, it just seems like a good idea at the time when you're a teen - sometimes,like for my son, it can be a last panic solution to problems they see no other way out of. Lots of kids who did as bad, or worse than my son who had great parents. And lots of horrible parents who's kids never cross a line. I have not walked in that boy's mother's shoes - I do not know what problems she had with him, or how she dealt with them. It's easy to point fingers at the parents when we don't know the circumstances or the family - but it's not always accurate or fair.

the cops had run into this kid before and basically did their job. Twice, if I understand things correctly.

Yet there he was out in violation of the curfew and got one of them.

Maybe this will be enough to bring the curfew issue out and the police staff will feel the urge to enforce it. I will certainly support their doing so after this.

This man is dead, this boy's life is in ruin. Everybody loses in this one.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

One way to reduce crime on our streets is to enforce the laws already on the books. These juveniles have a history of absentee parents, absences from school and minor criminal offenses and they all share another thing in common-none have had any serious interventions as a consequence of their behavior.

The schools and police department maintain an accurate log of criminal behavior for each of the juvenile offenders but there doesn't seem to be a record of the consequences for their prior bad acts.

The mayor has suggested reducing the monies to fund police in and around the schools. Perhaps the monies would be well spent if the police were funded and they acted, not as safety guards at cross walks, but with following up on student truancies, suspensions and expulsions. The path from school to the criminal system starts with non attendance at school.

bill

"The path from school to the criminal system starts with non attendance at school."

Well said Bill - I have a friend who calls this problem in the inner city schools the 'Prison Pipeline'. Smart lady - and I think she's right.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

that isn't needed-just enforce the laws already on the books.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Carty had to look like he was doing something. So as we all know this is a reaction to the situation and it was a bad idea before and it is still a bad idea. I am not saying Carty was not honestly moved by the event. We can't let our emotions cloud the issues many well put already.

I do agree that this boy was failed by his mother & the system. It does sound like his mother was trying, futile for a kid who's intent on sneaking out at night,skipping school, etc. My sister used to have to personally drive my nephew to school - then, an appointed person from the 'system' delivered him each day - and yet, by second class he'd skipped out of school, gone. The system fails these kids when they let them off with probations, warnings, hand slaps. And from previous posts it sounds like many parents saw that first hand. I worry about kids today - it seems there's a generation that has no respect for authority, for life.

1: He was out past curfew
2: He was selling drugs
3: He was carrying a concealed weapon

A threat to his mommy is gonna stop him?

How 'bout when he assaulted an officer the first time he got some time away from home in a juvie lockup??

may be a little scary the first time a child is in there but by the time they finish talking to the other children, it is no longer scary.

By the time these judges, magistrates, casa workers, probation officers, juvie attorneys (who won't speak with parents), counselors, CSB workers, Connecting Point, House of Emmanuel, et cetera, et cetera, finish talking to the kids in the Juvie Lock-up and telling them their rights, the kids no longer fear or listen to their parents.

Parents then essentially have no power or control of their child. Although held responsible for the child, parents have no input into the process or the outcomes.

Then you have 15 year olds (and younger) on the street at 2:00PM with guns.

How do I know? I became a victim of the Juvenile Justice system at the age of 60.

Parental Accountability

Making parents legally accountable for the crimes of the children isn

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

From Katie: the cops had run into this kid before and basically did their job. Twice, if I understand things correctly.

Many more times than just twice, but the cases were thrown out of court due to lack of evidence. Think about that one for a minute. This kid gets arrested multiple times, including a CCW charge that was so bogus as to be incredible and the judge throws out one case after another because there is no evidence to support the accusations.

From Starling: he panicked & committed a few armed robberies

He panicked?! Armed robbery is a very serious crime, and he committed

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

"including a CCW charge that was so bogus" well yeah Jack but he sure did have a gun the other night. DID he have a gun prior to this incident?

And I think starlings' story illustrates that you don't always know what is up with the kids. Very important to remember that.

And I think maybe it would be fairer to say he got 'desperate' for money and then made some bad choices.

I am very thankful to hear your story had a happy ending starling.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Valbee - I had heard (and can't remember what media outlet) that he had managed to cut the electronic monitoring device off. Don't know how true that is.

This whole hoopla made me think back to a girl I knew in junior high and high school. Raised by a strong Catholic family who had two other children that were angels. This girl, by the time she was a freshman, had robbed her parents, other people, gotten into physical fights and was doing drugs. She was vindictive, manipulative and just plain mean. What went wrong in her situation? Why was she such a troublemaker while her brother and sister were "normal?" She had the same opportunities that they had, they were raised the same, went to the same Catholic school, etc... I just think that there's something psychologically wrong with these kids that no law, parent or court system is going to be able to fix.

So they want to make sure the parents teach their kids right and wrong. Isn't that morality?

So Carty wants to pass a law forcing mom and dad to teach morality??

Legislating morality?? I thought I heard all the sheeple say that was baaaaaaaaaaaaaad??

And it's the party endorsed democrat doing it no less!!

Side issue - I'm surprised this argument hasn't been raised yet. Last time they wanted to pull this stunt does anyone remember how they turned it all into a big race issue??

"I just think that there's something psychologically wrong with these kids that no law, parent or court system is going to be able to fix," is kind of scary.

Are you thinking sort of like a "bad seed" type of child?

If that is true then we are in big trouble because there are many, many children out there who start out being a little unruly and then go on to be a big unruly, because of the various systems that touch them.

Every system that touched my children harmed them in some way from the judge who terminated their biological parents' parental rights to the Clinical Psychologist at the Juvenile Justice Center that diagnosed my youngest son as having a disorder called "problems at home" when this child clearly was involved in the gang and drug culture, which they (JJC) knew but I didn't, being a naive parent.

We really need to do better by children, each and every one of us, each and every child.

madjack - When I said my son panicked & committed a few robberies - I MEANT, that he'd panicked about his debts & losing visitation with his son & reacted, & acted. He did not think like an adult - he made a stupid choise, a 'quick fix' to solve problems that had him scared silly. I did NOT mean that he 'panicked' about committing the robberies. I meant, that his mental state was in such a panic, he saw no other way out. Stupid? Absolutely - he'd be the first to admit it. I never said he was a choirboy. I SAID, that this ugly scary patch in his life did NOT define him as a person. It was contrary to how he lived his life. It never once occurred to him that a gun could go off - he never intended to use it (he is still horrified at the possiblities of that thinking). I do not make excuses for my son - he never did either, he took responsility from the start. I was simply trying to show that sometimes kids don't think things through. My POINT, madjack - was not to make excuses for either my son or the 15 yr old. I was trying to show that teens do not always think like adults - and they can get caught up in things that go too far.

I have heard that Jobe had been on electronic monitoring, but somehow convinced his probation officer to get him out of it. Has this been reported anywhere?

It's likely Robert Jobe did have a gun prior to the shooting, but we don't know for sure. The other prior arrest (if you believe The Blade) described the TPD arresting Jobe on a CCW charge because the police found a handgun in a cardboard box near Jobe while Jobe was inside a carryout that he frequented on a regular basis. Evidently Jobe didn

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

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