Police Murder

I noticed no one has posted about this. What do you think about the policeman that was murdered? What is a 15 year old doing with a gun and out at 2 am? I have kids out in my neighborhood at 1 am many nights and I wonder why they are out wandering around so late.

No votes yet

Last I heard they 'might' try him as an adult. Might??

I thought it was funny when the mother of the 19yr old who was with him (also out at 2am, also coming out of a known drug house, also carrying a weapon...) complained that her poor innocent waif had his face scratched by the evil police when he resisted arrest.

(Mom and the 19yr old also both having extensive prior records...)

If someone could post the exact quote, that would be great, but the gist of what Dan had to say echoed what I yelled at the paper as I read it this morning- regarding Tracy Powell, mother of the 19 yr old demanding the police be held responsible because her son was roughed up. I am sorry, but if your son has cops identify themselves to him, he runs with a loaded COCKED gun, and they have to catch him, and wrestle a loaded cocked gun, you better believe he'll be getting a little road rash during the takedown. TOUGH CRAP! Also, why was this mother allowed to take pictures on her cell phone inside the jail? Isn't there some sort of law against that?

Anyhow, that got long, but Dan made a statement to the public, to stop making excuses for the behavior of children who wish to live the thug life, and to stop making it a color issue.
----my thoughts:
Doesn't matter if you're black white green or blue, you're going to receive some pretty tough treatment if you are acting this way. And you deserve it. I am so sick of seeing these parents defend their "good kids". Good kids don't go around with cocked guns running from police.

The whole thing is so tragic, and sickening.

Last I heard they 'might' try him as an adult. Might??

They have to get the judge to ok it first. I'm no expert but I'm guessing it will happen.
Personally as far as I'm concerned he stopped being a "boy" when he shot the officer. If he's man enough to pack a gun and man enough to shoot someone then he can take whats coming to him like a man.

From the Blade:

"He said the boy

I couldn't help but notice that as the police were leading him out of the house he had his cap cocked sideways and walked with his chin up. He's still got an attitude. I can only hope that the realization that he will never be free again is received like a punch in the stomach.

I don't understand the mindset that it takes to turn and look anyone (let along a cop) in the eye, put them in your gun's sights, and then pull the trigger. Did the shooter even think about the repercussions of his actions? I don't know if he did or not, but I hope he didn't. To know that you're taking the policeman's life and forever two chilrens' father and not care is beyond comprehension.

are "on a school night." I was thinking he was not in school, because most kids involved in the educational process do not shoot policeman, are not out at 1:00 in the morning and do not own guns.

So I decided to explore my supposition. Lo and behold he "attended" Phoenix Academy, a TPS charter school that is geared to kids who can not "make it" in a traditional school. So they are dumped into Phoenix Academy where there is no structure, no accountability and no teaching (according to students that I know who are enrolled there). Students don't even have to attend class, they just get a disk and find a computer and teach themselves.

TPS has 6 or 7 of these "virtual schools" under the banner of Phoenix Academy.

It would behoove those of us who don't want this tragedy repeated or something similar to make TPS accountable for all of it's students, not just the ones in the outlying areas, such as Bowsher, Start and Byrnedale.

Until all TPS students (K-12)are engaged in the "educational process" more tragedies are bound to occur.

We have been sounding the alarm for a long time but no one listened.

... of Robert Jobe's legal history, as well as his so-called "alleged accomplice" Sherman Powell:

"2 suspects had run-ins with officers in the past"

The mother of the boy who was initially apprehended...said in The Blade that she thinks the police roughed her son up and that he is a good kid.

I guess good kids hang out at 2 a.m. with guns down by the river.

From what I've read/listened to, these kids- or at least the one- Powell- have gotten away with breaking the law with few repercussions to this point, how does this happen every single time? Do the judges see the extensive rap sheets? How could they (Powell & Jobe) get passed through the juvenile system with so many free passes? No wonder they had no problem running from the cops- rules haven't applied to them thus far! I'll bet their mamas were there begging the judge to give their son a twenty-third chance, that they would keep track of their boys if they could just go home.
about the 15 year old being out and supposedly telling his mom he was at a friend's house- I wonder what his terms of PROBATION were- if he was supposed to be home or if that isn't a factor in PROBATION. I would also like to know if his probation officer checked into the fact that he'd only attended the Phoenix Academy once or twice- the kid wasn't even going to school according to news reports. Does Phoenix Academy check on truant students? Does Phoenix Academy report to PROBATION OFFICERS when kids don't come to school?????? Isn't that their specialty- to take on chronic truant students and those at risk? Maybe Sally Perz needs to check into this charter school when she's done with the Arts School... Anyone else come to the conclusion that a whole bunch of people dropped the ball in this situation?

and when he and his brother committed a crime, I called the police. Both boys were arrested and when we (you notice I said we) went to court, I was not allowed in the court room. In the courtroom the magistrate, attorneys (for both boys) and a probation officer made the decision that my two boys 13 and 14 would be appointed a guardian ad litem, who would work in the best interest of the boys. I was relagated to a position where I could not talk to them unless someone else was present. All of this happened because I called the police on the boys, so in the juvenile courts eyes I did not act in the best interest of both children. Both boys were appointed attorneys along with the guardian ad litem. No one would talk to me, not the boys attorneys, the boys, magistrates etc. I had to hire an attorney at the cost of 150.00 per hour to represent me so that I could be heard in court, as to what I thought would be best for my boys. I felt that they should be held accountable for what they did and I was ostracized by the court. I had to fight and pay to have any say in what happened to my two boys. So I can't go along with the idea that parents take up for their wayward children.

When we try to hold them accountable, (in juvenile court) we (the parents) become pariahs.

Juvenile court is a joke. The kids think it is a joke and Judge Ray makes it a joke along with all of the people employed there.

During the saga of my kids committing a crime and the judge trying to make me take them back home without any punishment to fit the crime my life and the lives of my other children were changed forever.

So don't be so quick to blame the parents of these boys, the Juvenile court bears some responsibility. As far as my case goes they bear a lot of responsibility when they let these kids off with that stupid program they put them in.

Incidently, I still have one son, a juvenile, still involved in the system and one turned 18 last May.

These boys started getting into trouble at 13 and 14. The juvenile court (Judge Ray, Magistrate Restivo, Magistrate Hutchenson, Chief Magistrate Donna Mitchell, Larry Twitchell the probation officer, Heather Fournier (attorney) Jerry Hoffer (attorney), Linda Sorah (GAL) the CASA department, namely Barry Cousins, let them get away with never being held accountable for their actions over my objections.

The police would arrest my son and before he got to the detention center good they were calling me to come pick him up. This happened at least 7 times. The charges were arson, unruly, criminal damaging, criminal trespassing, giving false information, a felony that I won't name, being a run away, posession of marijuana, probation violation and on and on.

You cannot imprison a juvenile for misdemeanors, no matter how many they have. Blame the legislature, not the courts. It is the law created by the legislature.

Additionally, if you think teachers and schools have anything to do with this, then you are clearly demonstrating weakness in your own parenting ability, or your own self-assurance. If you think teachers and schools should provide moral guidance, then you yourself are seriously misguided. This naturally implies that you believe schools should serve your purpose as a parent, which means you recognize you are not getting it done at home. In the same respect but from a different perspective, if you are a parent, how can you trust a teacher to have the same moral guidelines as yourself. Additionally, teachers teach kids math, history, english, etc., this is their function. With up to 30 kids to a class, you cannot expect a teacher to give your kid the attention he or she should get at home. Anyone who blames the schools at all for this, first off, needs to start helping their kids with homework, and second, should take an interest in their kids' lives. Obviously, if you blame the schools at all for this, then you're not doing either of these things. That's also the first step to improving TPS.

This is a tragic situation. This man truly served the community, and it is my understanding that he was a good cop. We should try not to blame those who don't deserve blaming. The kid had issues, maybe it's his parents' fault, maybe not. It's not for us to judge. At the end of the day, the kid was running around with a gun, and he killed a cop. It's his fault.

"When we try to hold them accountable, (in juvenile court) we (the parents) become pariahs."

I believe that is the idea.

I'd sure be interested in the comments of the one person who voted out here that this was the POLICE's fault.

It just boggles my mind how someone can think that and I'd really like to hear your reasoning.

I think everybody has a good point. I believe this is a problem with many contributing factors.

You cannot let the parents off. I think anybody who knows me would shudder at the thought of what would have happened to one of my kids who was found, 1. out with a GUN and 2. at the river at 2 a.m. and 3. involved in a drug deal.

That's my job. And I do it.

Teachers, yes there is a great deal of influence teachers offer into a child's life. Either good or bad. This is one of those deals where there isn't too much middle ground. A bad teacher can destroy a child's self-esteem. But as we have seen in our own family lately - one GOOD teacher can undo alot of evil and build up a child. Anybody who says it's any different than that - is a liar.

Police, as we have seen recently they are capable in our area of truancy sweeps. We all know that we have a gang problem in Toledo and all of the associated issues, such as youngsters being involved in drug trafficking and carrying guns - yet our police chief refuses to admit the problem. Well that's one solution I guess. Ignore something. It is the easiest solution, at least until one of your men gets shot in the fog by a kid who looks like he should still be at home sleeping under a GI Joe comforter.

Legislature. Oh my God what to say about this. These people apparently can't figure out how to tie their own shoes.

Judges. How many judges do you suppose have had cases in front of them, took the expedient and easy way out (deals) only to see something like this happen later on, to the person THEY LET OFF?! I don't know the history in this case - but I will bet you that this child has been in front of a judge in the past and rather than intervene in the track this kid was on, he was just passed on like a piece of garbage, not worth a second look.

This kid. In many societies, this kid would be considered an adult. We don't really accept that here, we tend to coddle our kids as long as we can. And that's a luxury most parents in the world simply do not have. But he is old enough to bear some responsibility in the situation.

If this kid is tried as an adult - he could receive the death penalty. And I hope every adult that has been involved in this young man's life is thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

I don't know how the Mom gets off from this. Her son had a troubled past, why is she so trusting of him to be at someone else's house? If my son had the rap sheet he had, he would be grounded period-no friends house. She is reaping the lack of care she sowed. Obviously she has some blame in all of this. The kids that wander my neighborhood at 1 am are around the same age and their parents are to blame too. I live in a different part of the city, and I could imagine the same thing happening where I live.

You may not be able to imprison a juvenile for a misdemeanor, but you sure can listen to a parent when it comes to meting out punishment.

A misdemeanor in the juvenile justice system, is a felony of the highest degree, in my home. When JJC does not listen to parents and a parent has to hire an attorney to be heard in court surely you can see that something is wrong with the system.

I don't believe that it takes a village to raise a child, I believe that it takes parents and family to raise a child.

But to these administrators at the JJC it is just another day to get paid.

My son had committed a crime and was being held in the JJC. He was to be held for ten days. I received a call from him and he said that since it was his birthday in two days his probation officer, Mr. Larry Twitchell was going to let him go early. I told him that that could not be true.

Within the hour I received a call from the probation officer telling me to come pick my son up because they were letting him out because his birthday was coming up in two days. This action in essence took all of the power that I had as a parent away because the probation officer had more power than me (in my son's eyes) at that point.

Within two months this son went on to participate in a felony.

Grounding does not work with children who have been exposed to the juvenile justice system of justice.

In my case everyone (lawyers, judges magistrates, Casa, probation officers, took up for my son and made me out to be the bad parent because I wouldn't let him do his gang bangin' stuff.

I am going to sit down and write about the injustices of the juvenile justice system and how it works against kids, parents and the community by letting these "troubled" kids get away with stuff that most parents wouldn't put up with.

I know many parents who have had the same issues with the juvenile justice system in Toledo, Ohio.

When a child first comes before the system it should be a shock to the child's system, enough that they wouldn't think about breaking the law again.

Instead, they are handled with kid gloves and the money keeps the system in place.

Can you imagine how many peolpe are on the payroll that is supposed to mete out justice for children?

In the four years I have been involved (because of a "troubled child") I have had contact with over 75 people employed by this system.

We need to do better at holding everyone accountable when it involves children. Because when children are safe, everyone is safe.

You can NOT point the finger at a specific person or party who is responsible for this situation.

It does, indeed, take a village to raise a child.

A village can also let a child down. Nobody should escape blame in this one.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

... that I follow you. Children in their teens like to stay with friends overnight at other homes. This happens often enough. If there is adequate parenting at both ends of the deal, then there's nothing to worry about.

In contrast, too many so-called parents in Toledo are drug addicts and no one should entrust their children to them for any amount of time.

The comments made by Dan are on my website and can be listened to or downloaded to pc or i-pod. Go to WSPD.com and type my first name in the search box. It's spelled FRED, lol.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

And why shouldn't he be cocky and assertive? There is an entire culture that is waiting for him in prison and in various ghettos for when he gets out sporadically. He now has "cred" in that culture; we've already noted informally this is Thug Culture. Hollywood glorifies TC often enough on the 'Terrorvision'. It's hardly marginalized; it's actually mainstream.

What annoys me is actually multivariate, as a churning angst that results from the realization that things are out of control:

1. The boy's life is over, and he clearly doesn't even know it. Thug Culture is embracing him and he apparently thinks that that is some sort of future. What a goddamn waste. From Child, to Cop-Killer, to Felon, to Corpse (i.e. Crime Statistic) or Broken Man.

2. With yet another death, I'm reminded that we don't need to lose anyone for any reason, particularly one that involves using weapons for ludicrous goals. Whether or not a policeman dies in such events is irrelevent -- murder is the definitive baseline of social action and no one is worth any more or less than anyone else.

3. Once again, we have a strongly emotional event that will lead to false polarizations in our society.

4. Somehow, along the way, our society failed to educate this child on morality, citizen rights and responsibilities, and the large and small pictures of history. Once again, tonight, too many TPS teachers will go home after another exhausting day of NOT CARING and put the ongoing travesty from their minds as they plan their retirements with our money. Co-incident, the rest of us also arrive home and focus on the little things of home life which -- although important -- avoid dealing with the rising crisis outside our small personal worlds.

He's got to be found competent to stand trial as an adult first. And we want that to happen now so there's less room for an appeal later.

I find the whole thing very sad. Sounds like neither the 15 or the 19 yr old had much in the way of parental involvment - parents indifferent to what their kids are doing. That said - I don't know what their lives were like, and I do know, that sometimes even the best parents can find themselves with teens who will just find a way to do what they want to do. I've seen some excellent parents who had kids sneak out at night, get into trouble, ruin their lives. You can't watch them 24 hours a day - sometimes you cross your fingers & hope. I know kids who snuck out at night & snuck back in before their parents woke up. Why was the 15 yr old out at 2 am? Shouldn't have been - but it happens. Sometimes, there's nothing to tip off the parents until something goes horribly wrong. Sometimes, a kid can be impossible to control. My nephew used to sneak out till all hours, do drugs, refuse to go to school. My sister would take him to school personally & he'd skip out before second class. When something like this happens, it's easy to point fingers at the parents, but it's not always fair. That said - in this case, it seems to be a fair place to point. This didn't seem like something out of the ordinary for these kids, and it sounds like maybe they learned what they lived. Just very sad - young lives thrown away. I don't know how I feel about trying a 15 yr old as an adult. Depends on some variables. Not long ago the Blade printed an article of one of the first kids (age 11) tried as an adult & released at age 21 - sentenced to 10 yrs in prison, with the hope that the prison rehabilitated him. When I read that, and saw the 11 yr old child in that photo, I had to wonder why they felt an 11 yr old needed to be rehabilitated for 10 yrs - he was a child. If he wasn't screwed up before he went to jail, he surely would be when he got out. In this current situation - yes, he's 15 yrs old, not 11. But technically he's still a child - and I think it warrents looking into his life before deciding to try him as an adult, rather than a knee-jerk angry reaction. Understand - I do not defend his actions at all. I just wonder, if his whole life nobody much cared what he did, or took any time to find out - washed their hands, looked the other way - if putting him in prison the rest of his life or the death sentence isn't doing much the same thing. A wasted, thrown away life - maybe of a kid who's never had anybody who really gave a damn. Of course it's a worse crime because it was a policeman who was killed. And a vice cop is one of the most dangerous beats there is, my heart goes out to the cops family. There is no excuse, nothing will make this right. But I have to wonder why it is that some people will scream about abortions, and yet be willing to scream 'try this kid as an adult & throw the key away' - both are lives, unrealized. As for the 19 yr old - he is an adult, legally. But probably didn't come from much better than the 15 yr old did, and most 19 yr olds aren't that far from being kids themselves. I realize I am talking in contradictions here - just thinking out loud. I do not know these kids life situations, what the parenting was like - if the parents were really indifferent, or just couldnt control the kids. Having said all this & tossed out so many contradictions - I think it's horrible & sad that so many kids are so into street life & drugs, it is a way of life with many of them - and maybe examples need to be set so nobody else has to die needlessly. I don't pretend to know the answers. If they were in their 20's or older, I'd have no problem with them paying for their crime to the full extent of the law. There's just a part of me that sees them as children still - of kids who maybe never learned that they could be more than cop shooters & drug dealers/users.

"When we try to hold them accountable, (in juvenile court) we (the parents) become pariahs."

I believe that is the idea.

It should be IF the parents are allowing their kids to get away with this behavior but in the posters story it sounds to me like she was being very aware and proactive in trying to control her kids, considering several times the idea that parents could/should face jail time because of their teens antics it is just mind blowing that they (the courts) would react in this manner to a parent obviously trying to hold her kids accountable.

It sounds to me that in JC as a parent you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

to stand trial.........Robert Jobe, if certified as an adult for trial, CANNOT receive the death penalty under the current statutes in Ohio. He is a minor who carried out a tragic act but even if he is tried and convicted as an adult he cannot be executed.

I'd like to hear the reason behind that one too.

... and I don't believe the police are at fault. No one really jumps in front of a bullet (except those nuts around the President).

BUT, a policy change might be forthcoming. The vice cops have latitude about when to wear their protective vests. Det. Dressel (in plainclothes?) apparently wasn't wearing his at the time. He then chose to engage in a stop, and then a chase. The end product of that decision shows that he erred.

I'm not going to spend time second-guessing the police on field procedures. Not only is that insulting, but it's unwarranted -- we pay and train the police to be the best at field procedures in the first place. However, as a result of Det. Dressel's decision, the command officers may decide to set a policy or two. For example, vice cops like Det. Dressel may be required in the future to seek backup before attempting such a stop. Whether or not such a policy change makes a difference is debatable; for instance, although it's easy to say "get some backup first", the serious street-undermanning of the TPD probably makes such a policy foolish (i.e. there's no point in waiting for backup that 90% of the time can't arrive). Even saying "put on your vest before attempting a stop" involves a certain delay that any street cop knows puts the effectiveness of the stop at risk.

I've criticized police for being too careful. I've also criticized them for being too careless. Who can really make such authoritative decisions on the street except for the police officer on the scene?

... that Carty had bumped up the vice dept recently by about 6 people since he has some bug up his arse about drug crime. Was Det. Dressel part of this group, and did he receive all the training that he should have?

Somehow, along the way, our society failed to educate this child on morality, citizen rights and responsibilities, and the large and small pictures of history Once again, tonight, too many TPS teachers will go home after another exhausting day of NOT CARING and put the ongoing travesty from their minds as they plan their retirements with our money

I'm sorry but I seriously cannot see how this kid killing a cop is the fault of Toledo Public Schools. It's hardly the teachers duty to teach morals to our children.
Its hardly fair to say in one sentence that society failed to educate this kid on morality then slap it all on the teachers. Personally I don't know enough about my teachers morals to want them imposed on my child.
Last I heard it was up to the parents to teach their children morals not society. While I can agree society does play a large part in that it is very unfair to twist it into a bash of teachers.

Det. Dressel's obituary implied that he was a 14-yr vet on the vice squad.

I've heard this horseshit excusing of teachers and I refuse to accept it. The advancing competition from home schooling, parochial schools, private schools and even charter schools, means that their insulated and self-serving little public school system is facing a harder going each year. So you hardly need to dismiss my concerns. The money and attendance have already started to fly away from the BAD school system, so my intentions will be realized one way or another. So, there.

As for the blame ... when teachers and administrators care little to nothing about doing their jobs effectively, then they certainly share in the responsibility for the ruined products (i.e. children) that come off their production line (i.e. school). Schools are paid and charged to produce educated people; that therefore becomes a duty and such duties cannot be morally shirked.

Children are supposed to be taught citizenship in our schools. Period. They don't just receive such moral instruction from parents and other family members -- they also get morality from US, through our proxy the public school system. The schools are OUR voice. So, when they reach their teens and start spraying bullets for stupid reasons, then that's extraordinary evidence that WE (yes, ALL of us) have failed to instruct them. After all, it's elementary:

1. Pull gun on cops.
2. Cops shoot you.
3. You're fuckin' DEAD.

Almost everyone has the urge to avoid being shot to death. So, this 3-step mental calculation should go through the minds of anyone who encounters the police.

That's why WE need to get command of our school systems and ensure that money is spent effectively and that pupils are suitably instructed. I'm hardly the law-and-order freak, but shooting at the police may as well be personally categorized as an 'act of war' and as in any war, there is a lot of death, destruction and overall suffering. DUH.

I'm sorry GZ I still don't blame this punks teachers for him growing up to be a cop killing thug. His parents bear more responsibility then the teachers do. They are the ones who dropped the ball.

For when their students aren't properly educated, not when they drop out and shoot cops. How exactly is a teacher supposed to make a kid show up for school? They're not deputized and they don't have the powers that social workers do, therefore teachers can't forcibly detain kids in school. The only real tactic teachers have to keep a kid from dropping out is to try to get them to see the bleakness of a life without a high school diploma. Ultimately, it's up to the parents to make the kids go to school. They are the guardians and they have real power over a child's life until they're 18.

I don't see this as an indictment of our education system, I see it as a stupid kid who ended both his life and the life of a policeman because of a decision he made. I blame one person for this crime: the kid with the gun. He pulled the trigger, he bears responsibility for the crime. Personal responsibility demands that he receive the full blame for this senseless crime. As for the failure to teach citizenship in school being the reason that this cop is dead, I say bullshit. There's lots of kids who drop out or receive a substandard education, but they don't kill cops. I personally was never taught in school that shooting a cop is wrong, yet I made it this far in life without killing a policeman. Not committing murder isn't a skill that needs to be taught. Any rational person knows that murder is wrong.

"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

I've noticed -Guest Zero that you seem to rant a lot about tps and how they are always taking your money.....now, teachers are working toward retirement on your tax dollars etc....in your latest lines here. I am there with Toledo children- 28 of them daily, for 5 3/4 hours per day. I do not agree that we are just going through the motions as you suggest. The majority of my students are there to learn. I teach them math, reading, spelling, science, and citizenship. Morality is not one of the subjects in our core curriculum handbook. Nor would I like any of my own children's teachers to teach them on the subject. A lot of the time children learn social skills from video games and morality from cable television. A child with support from home should be able to learn at any school whether on the outskirts of Toledo or inner city. It's tiresome to hear you rag on teachers and salaries when a good portion of that money goes for pencils, supplies and other materials for those in our classes. If we didn't care....that would not be the case.em


And you can argue THAT point with New Orleans' police superintendent.

On top of that, said parents are ALSO the product of our school system.

At any rate, public schooling in Ohio is a mandate upon the government, which means it's the duty of each one of us Ohioans to make sure it's effective. I say that as a part of that duty, parents and their children who don't care about battling police (for stupid reasons) is a problem and WE are going to take care of it regardless of your misunderstandings. It you don't like THAT, leave Ohio.

You want me to believe that when children spend 6 hours a day in your classrooms, it's insufficiently balancing with all the "gameporn" that fills their other waking hours?

Mrs. Bobthedad -- go and pull my other leg! I'm not buying that. All you're trying to do is dangle the same withered carrot of myth before us that is now routinely proffered by teachers and administrators alike in the TPS: said myth being "students don't learn morality in the classroom" (and as well the subordinate myth of "... even when we try").

If your students are not picking up suitable social mores in your classroom, then I either want them removed forthwith, or I want your silly ass fired for sheer incompetence. You have them for 6 hours a day. You are just damning yourself in our eyes by implying that you are unable to be a positive force and example in the lives in your pupils.

(If instead your pupils march out of your particular classroom with heads held high and with exclamations of "gee, Teacher Mrs. Bobthedad is a great lady, she's not a gun-toting thug like Bobby Brown or a stupid whore like Britney "Head Lice" Spears, I want to be JUST LIKE TEACHER MRS. BOBTHEDAD when I grow up, etc.", then you're merely the exception that tests the rule and you're due some expressions of thanks from the Rest Of Us.)

Mrs. Bobthedad said: "It's tiresome to hear you rag on teachers and salaries when a good portion of that money goes for pencils, supplies and other materials for those in our classes. If we didn't care....that would not be the case."

Once again, I am able to sense why Billy and the rest hate Liberals so much. You are truly deranged.

And I'm more than tired of hearing your class of person think that such financial stupidity is somehow laudable. STOP PAYING FOR SUPPLIES FOR THE PUPILS. DUH! You're only letting the parents, guardians and foster parents right off the hook and are only severely distorting the "market in information" for when the public has to decide your pay scales.

I may as well complain that my pay isn't high enough since I "routinely donate money to charities". What you do with your money in that sense is not a compelling force for your employer.

I liked you teachers a little bit better when you went to "work to the rule". At least then you displayed enlightened self interest.

Leave Ohio where the hell is that coming from? Just because someone in NOLA wants to blame education doesn't make it the gospel truth. Perhaps if you're so enamored with the way NOLA police handle things you're the one who should leave Ohio.
I agree something needs to be done (in fact I never said there wasn't) to take care of the problem but unlike you I'm not laying the blame on the educational system.
Considering the rap sheet this kid had I'd say the blame falls on the judicial system that just keeps slapping these kids on the wrist and spitting them back onto the streets. Seems to me there is a huge fault in the rehabilitation system that is more to blame then this kids teachers.

This kid rarely ever set foot in a classroom. He attended an "on-line" school for these poor, poor children who will never be able to make it in a real classroom. I hope somebody puts a stop to this joke called the Phoenix Academy. He attended a private elementary school (Trinity Lutheran) where he received D's and F's according to The Blade. So how can you blame the teachers when he was rarely ever in school to begin with?

Shall I use smaller words for you? What was so incomprehensible about this string of logic? --

0. When children misbehave and even commit crimes then it's more than reasonable to suspect they were improperly educated.

1. The parents of criminal children are ALSO the product of our school system.

2. Public schooling in Ohio is a mandate upon the government through the Ohio state constitution.

3. Government mandates become the duty of each one of us Ohioans to make sure they are effective.

4. THERE-fuckin'-FORE: When children commit crimes we have every reason to not only suspect the school systems but to enact changes along those lines.

(Dispute ANY OF THAT. Hint: You can't.)

As an Ohio citizen I expect you to get off your lazy ass and stop pretending that the schools are not a part of the larger social problem of misbehaving children. It's bad enough that teachers and administrators routinely disavow their responsibility for the furtherance of their pupils. It's doubly galling that citizens refuse to hold teachers and their administrators to said responsibility.

If you refuse to rise to this duty, it's more than sensible for me to cordially invite you to go to other states where social fundamentals are not so firmly outlined, or where tolerance of your particular flavor of outright stupidity is larger or acculturated.

Now stick all THAT in your pipe and give it a few puffs, Sparky!

I'm not going to sit here and debate you all day GZ. I've got my opinion and you've got yours. However, I've got enough class to just say let's just respect each others' opinions and get on with life. 'Tis how I live my life everyday. The kid obviously had mental problems that no techer is going to remedy. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

There are things I teach my children that I don't expect TPS to teach them. If you choose to let your childrens morals be set by the school system then all I can say to that is: What ever floats your boat

This boys parents dropped the ball on teaching/raising him long before TPS got a hold of him and when he started getting into trouble the Courts and his parents dropped the ball again in setting this kid back on the right path.

Sadly it's impossible to discuss anything with someone who has to rely on profanity and name calling to try and prove their point.

He wasn't a product of our public school system.

He attended Holy Trinity School until this year. When he was at Holy Trinity, he got Ds & Fs and was absent for over 50 days during 8th grade. Jobe hadn't even been enrolled at the Pheonix Academy for a month when killed the detective.

Care to explain how this is TPS's fault again?

"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

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