Why not Dr. Earl Murry for superintendent?

Tagged:  

Why was Toledo

No votes yet

They flew Purcell in who was obviously not a good candidate. They could have interviewed Dr. Murry for free. I don't understand....

I don't understand either. Purnhrt says he, (assuming from the name Earl this is a man. If not I apologize), is "eminently qualified".

So why not let the man apply?

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

If he is willing - have him send his resume to toledopoliticians.

I will post it.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

I object to anyone who titles him or herself doctor if they don't have an M.D. All lawyers are technically doctors by the same standard, yet they refer to themselves as mister. My standard is that if someone is severely injured on the street and someone yells out, "is anyone here a doctor?" or "we need a doctor," would he or she respond? If he can't help the injured person, then s/he is not a doctor. S/he is Mr. Soandso, Ph.D., or Mr. Soandso, J.D. (or a number of other various doctoral degrees). While Ph.D.s and J.D.s (and many others) are techinically degreed doctors, they are not doctors by society's standards. It is arrogance to call yourself as such, like the mayor's chief of staff saying "I'm your boss" or "do you know who I am." Don't call yourself out as a doctor unless you are willing to help when someone says, "we need a doctor." What are you going to do, walk up to the injured and say, I'm a doctor of philosophy or I'm a doctor of jurisprudence, and I thought it would be funny to respond as a doctor, because I'm so arrogant that I am? And then have nothing to offer the injured person. Absolutly not.

1. Who is Earl Murry?

2. What experience does he have that pertains to running a large school district?

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Additionally, I wouldn't object to Ph.D.s and other doctorates to refer to themselves as Professor if they teach. I think that is a reasonable compromise.

Can you give us a link to the resume? I've never heard of Earl, but if he's qualified and willing, the board should have interviewed him.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Stand by

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Folks, it's not that hard to do a Google search before submitting a post to give those of us who have never heard of the guy a little bit of background. While the spelling and grammar errors on the bio paragraph he submitted for use on the UT College of Education website and on the resume he submitted to TPS may have some bearing on his exclusion from the search, it probably has more to do with the fact that he has only 3 years of experience as an assistant superintendent and he left that position two decades ago. Not exactly what I'd consider "eminently qualified" to run a 29k student school district that's going through some near-catastrophic troubles.

Also, his offering of evidence against the school district in legal matters probably didn't help, either.

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

I was not aware that I had to google search information before I submitted. Please excuse the offense and thanks for the information.

Oh, and by the by who is this Ig person you quote? Or is it another part of my ignorance and I should automatically know?

RobertBrundage, Ph.D. Biophysics.
Ever since before the GREAT WAR when Carnegie & Mellon got together to find the most profit in American "health" care [winner's were: Patented chemical derivatives of neutraceuticals from nature, & SURGERY after the damage is done] my mantra has been preventive medicine. I do not agree with many professional doctors to whom most Americans entrust their bodies [as well as professional undertakers], or with professional teachers to whom our children, or with professional lawyers to whom our freedom, or to the human imagined world that modern reductionism blankets our young.

Someone may be casting the first stone. [see ShrinkingCities.com]

RobertBrundage

Dr. Earl Murry's resume can be found at

http://tpsinfo.com/super_search/murry_resume.pdf

This gentleman was not given an interview by the Toledo Board of Education? Why not?

I don't know his history in the community - Mr. Murry may be linked to some educational advocates that Mr. Sykes, Ms. Barnett and the Committee of the Whole have set themselves against...I just don't know.

But TPS is a huge money machine. Has nearly twice the budget of the entire city.

We need someone with experience in the educational field - but keep in mind, we're talking about the position of CEO for our district and that huge budget. That kind of experience is very important, as well as political experience.

Someone would need to be very politically savvy to be able to recognize what it is that TPS is suffering from and be able to cope with it. Dirty politics - that's at the root of the problem.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

What I said was Dr. Murry was not afforded an interview, when his resume (I felt) more than satisfied what was required to apply for and do the job.

I am more concerned about the process that is being used. I am also concerned about TPS looking for "qualified black employees" and when one is available he is denied an interview. While I am sure if there were 100 candidates, interviewing all would be a problem. But not to interview a man who I feel (as do others) is more than qualified to do the job is an act of foolishness and or vengeance. I never said race was the issue. I asked the question is race an issue or are other dynamics in play?

An interview would have been appropriate.

What I said was Dr. Murry was not afforded an interview, when his resume (I felt) more than satisfied what was required to apply for and do the job.

I am more concerned about the process that is being used. I am also concerned about TPS looking for "qualified black employees" and when one is available he is denied an interview. While I am sure if there were 100 candidates, interviewing all would be a problem. But not to interview a man who I feel (as do others) is more than qualified to do the job is an act of foolishness and or vengeance. I never said race was the issue. I asked the question is race an issue or are other dynamics in play?

An interview would have been appropriate.

Can you point me to the specific place or page in the document SE-1653-2005 that states Earl Murry offered evidence against the district?

Also, his offering of evidence against the school district in legal matters probably didn't help, either.

I was at that hearing and Dr. Murry did not offer any evidence against the school district. Nor does it say at the end of page 3 or at the beginning of page 4 that he did. As a matter of fact all of the public that was there including relatives were basically put under a gag order.

Ignorant that I am, what is a CV and where can I find Dr. Murrys? After reading the CV maybe I can give you an informed answer.

Or is a CV the same as a resume?

Also, his offering of evidence against the school district in legal matters probably didn't help, either.

I was at that hearing and Dr. Murry did not offer any evidence against the school district. Nor does it say at the end of page 3 or at the beginning of page 4 that he did. As a matter of fact all of the public that was there including relatives were basically put under a gag order.

Ignorant that I am, what is a CV and where can I find Dr. Murrys? After reading the CV maybe I can give you an informed answer.

Or is a CV the same as a resume?

that Dr. Murry did not offer evidence against the district as you stated?

I will read his curriculum vitae again and try to answer your question.

an honest dialogue here? You cannot have an honest dialogue under these terms. Just my two cents worth.

1. This handbanana is making some statements that were never made in the original post. Purnhrt never said that Mr. Murry should be the next Super. She commented on his resume and then proceeded to ask some very serious questions about the hiring process and potential for bias. Nowhere did I read where she said anyone should be the next Super.

2. Then this person made a false statement and provided documentation proving the statement to be false, in that the document itself proved that Mr. Murry was never a party or a witness nor did he provide evidence as handbanana stated. Making assumptions that everyone is so gullible as to swallow all of that without reading the documents was not a good decision. Some of us do our homework.

The question is NOT whether Mr. Murry is the best candidate - the question IS why wasn't he interviewed?

I've read his resume and I state, for the record, that he is qualified, and I do not accept cherry picking here. And that is what it would appear is happening.

For the record - you cannot have a rational discussion with an irrational person. And you cannot have an honest conversation with a liar.

Simple truths....

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

I don't care anymore why you think Dr. Murry should be the next superintendent. He's not going to be and even if Jesus Christ were named as the next superintendent, you'd probably complain that he was only hired because Fran Lawrence is a Christian.

I never said that Dr. Murry should be superintendent. What I said was, why was he not given an opportunity to interview for the position.

Oviously you are someone from inside the TPS system and we know with that thinking, you want the status quo to remain and that ain't happenin'. Even if Mr. Foley is given the position, that old thinking of doing things the same way is over at least for those of us who want change.

Change is going to come or there will no longer be public schools as we know them.

As far as Fran Lawrence being a christian has no bearing on the negative influence that she has on our students still enrolled in TPS.

New schools are going up every day and there are only so many students. People who want change for their students,will gravitated to these schools. Parent's are telling you insiders every day, "we want change." "And if we can't get it with you we will take our dollars somewhere else."

For a serious, honest dialogue to occur the parties have to be intent on being honest.

I'm chilled.....matter of fact, it is down right cold here. And I am cruising right on past you and your attempt to twist this dialogue once again, banana. You don't merit the time.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

You don't merit the time banana!

And I ain't angry!

Let me preface what I am about to say with the stipulation that I am not furious or angry that Earl Murry did not warrant an interview, although I am perplexed.

I started this thread after searching on line for one thing and ran across Earl Murry's resume, or more correctly for some his curriculum vitae.

After reading it I was quite astounded that he was not given an initial interview. I asked was there something else going on, such as his ideology or had he been blackballed by the powers that be.

Dr. Earl Murry met and exceeded every criteria that was listed on Pro-Act

Sorry Maggie, missed your question.

I am perturbed because the inside party line, (from the Sykes group) appears to be that Dr. Murry is not going to be considered. That's my impression of the situation.

Then we have somebody here (h.b.) who posts one of the reasons Dr. Murry was not considered: "Also, his offering of evidence against the school district in legal matters probably didn't help, either."

And provides a link to a document which clearly states that Dr. Murry never addressed the court. It is fairly clear from the document that a party 'recognized' Dr. Murry and wanted to enlist his help on a matter and the court said no.

So, in deducing that handbanana could not have found in this document that Dr. Murry gave evidence against the district - he must have been told, and was provided - as evidence - the location of a document online that he has quite obviously never read.

Smacks of politics and planting information in order to discredit someone.....and I'm not good with that. Been far too much political maneuvering with OUR school district already.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

From Junta: I object to anyone who titles him or herself doctor if they don't have an M.D.

Well then, you just tell the rest of the world to fall right into line. I'm sure that everyone else will be so happy to learn the error of their ways regarding the misplacement of the title, 'Doctor' that they won't know what to say. How will everyone ever be able to repay you, Noble Learned One?

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

And they told me you were an uncompromising, sanctimonious gasbag. What do they know? Maybe you should get a mailing list of Doctoral candidates and announce the new rules of etiquette to these fine scholars first. I'm sure they'll all agree with you!

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

You'd know.

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

John Foley was never a superintendent until he was elevated as interim superintendent in July 2006. He served his entire career at TPS - not much to write home about given the district's track record. All your experience with one organization "that's going through some near-catastrophic troubles" does not make me warm and fuzzy.

When you compare Foley to Murry, you see a breadth and depth of experience in Murry that is lacking in Foley.

The question we should all ask is why was a well qualified individual with a knowledge of our community not asked to interview?

This gentleman was not given an interview by the Toledo Board of Education? Why not?
It's been asked by others but I notice you still haven't answered Purnhrt, but it's clear in his resume that it's been 20 years since he was an assistant superindent of a school system. So how exactally does that make him an ideal fit for the position?

I just talked with Earl Murry earlier today and mentioned his profile. He was surprised there was a profile but checked into it and found out that graduate students write the profiles - not the professor, etc. He has asked for it to be corrected. Just could not believe that Murry would submit such a profile.

End of page 3, where he is recognized as a "person with special knowledge" who was present at the hearing. If Dr. Murry wants to dispute what has been said about him here, he's more than welcome to open an account.

Now I'll ask you again even though I'm getting tired of asking, what specifically are we missing when we read Dr. Murry's CV that shows he would be a good candidate for the TPS superintendent job?

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Because the parent didn't follow proper procedure by neglecting to mention that he would assist her at the discovery hearing.

CV or curriculum vitae, it's a type of resume.

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

But he never had the chance to go on record because the arbitrator ruled against allowing his testimony.

I will read his curriculum vitae again and try to answer your question.

Wait a second, you started this thread! So you've been furious that he was overlooked in the Superintendent search, so much so that you started this topic and stated the following:

"I just finished reading his resume and while I have not been privy to the other resumes, I cannot envision anyone else

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

This handbanana is making some statements that were never made in the original post. Purnhrt never said that Mr. Murry should be the next Super. She commented on his resume and then proceeded to ask some very serious questions about the hiring process and potential for bias.

Kate, chill out a second. First of all, the statement I quoted from purnhrt is at the top of the page for all to see. Secondly, she stated that she couldn't imagine any other candidate having a better resume, leading any reader to believe that Dr. Murry was the best man for the job. Finally, she didn't ask any serious questions, she asked loaded questions about Fran Lawrence's involvement and whether Dr. Murry had been blackballed because of his ideology. That's neither helpful towards discussion nor does it create an opportunity for open dialog. I and others have tried to explain that he was not interviewed because of the lack of recent experience and the typographical errors present on his resume. The only rebuttal was that he was available for the interview and that he is qualified despite what his CV shows.

Then this person made a false statement and provided documentation proving the statement to be false, in that the document itself proved that Mr. Murry was never a party or a witness nor did he provide evidence as handbanana stated. Making assumptions that everyone is so gullible as to swallow all of that without reading the documents was not a good decision. Some of us do our homework.

Then do me a favor and reread the paragraph about the upheld objection in the PDF. Dr. Murry was at the hearing, he was recognized as a person with special knowledge, and was prepared to testify. However, the mediator upheld the school district's objection that his inclusion in the case was not disclosed during the discovery hearing. Therefore, he offered to provide evidence, but did not go on the record due to procedural issues. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but from what I read he was there and he was about to offer his expertise in the case until the TPS lawyer objected.

I've read his resume and I state, for the record, that he is qualified, and I do not accept cherry picking here. And that is what it would appear is happening.

If we're cherry picking from his resume, what are we missing? I'm not alone in thinking Dr. Murry is unqualified for the TPS job based on his resume. What do you see specifically that would lead you to believe he is qualified and should have been interviewed? That's the question I and others have been asking, yet we've got nothing from purnhrt. It has frustrated me to the point where I've given up on her answering. I started off genuinely curious as to who this gentleman was and what qualifications did he have that pertained to running a school district the size of Toledo's. After finding his resume and info about him, I asked what I was missing from the CV since he hadn't been a school administrator in nearly 20 years. No one has given a clear answer to that question yet. I'm hoping you can fill me in on what qualifies him for the job.

For the record - you cannot have a rational discussion with an irrational person.

I agree, which is why I responded to purnhrt's comment in the way that I did. After asking the same question time and time again, I got frustrated. I'm sorry if I've angered her, but in order to have a discussion she needs to contribute some information, not just ask the same already-answered question over and over.

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Kate, SFlagg:

I've been following this dialog, and evidently I'm missing something. I read HandBanana's posts and I don't see anything wrong with what he's saying.

I also looked at Earl Murry's CV and didn't see anything that merited an automatic interview or not. The man has little experience in the position, so I probably would not interview him, but then I haven't seen the rest of the candidates. No big deal here, as we are all speculating.

What's up?

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

I never said that Dr. Murry should be superintendent. What I said was, why was he not given an opportunity to interview for the position.

No, what you said was "I just finished reading his resume and while I have not been privy to the other resumes, I cannot envision anyone else

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Then we have somebody here (h.b.) who posts one of the reasons Dr. Murry was not considered: "Also, his offering of evidence against the school district in legal matters probably didn't help, either."

And provides a link to a document which clearly states that Dr. Murry never addressed the court. It is fairly clear from the document that a party 'recognized' Dr. Murry and wanted to enlist his help on a matter and the court said no.

First, it wasn't a court, it was a mediator. Secondly, I said he offered, not gave evidence, as you quoted above. Finally, I said it probably didn't help, not that it was a reason why he was excluded from the interviews. His lack of recent experience was most likely the cause of the exclusion.

So, in deducing that handbanana could not have found in this document that Dr. Murry gave evidence against the district - he must have been told, and was provided - as evidence - the location of a document online that he has quite obviously never read.

Or maybe you didn't understand what I was trying to write. Or maybe I had a few beers that night and typed "offering of evidence" when I should have typed "offer to testify" to make things clearer. Or maybe if I were a more litigious person who actually didn't believe that arguing on the Internet is like coming in first at the Special Olymics, I'd be researching whether or not that statement by you could be construed as libel or slander. I forget which is which.

Smacks of politics and planting information in order to discredit someone.....and I'm not good with that. Been far too much political maneuvering with OUR school district already.

So if I have an opinion contrary to what you and sflagg believe, then I'm a plant and incapable of rational conversation in your eyes. That's kind of frightening. I'm also disturbed that if I have a contrary opinion to what you, sflagg, and purnhrt have, I must be supporting someone else then. What you don't realize is that it's my school district, too. I pay taxes to support it and I'll be damned if I'm going to be cool with TPS hiring someone who in my opinion isn't qualified to run a large school district.

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

From Sflagg: When you compare Foley to Murry, you see a breadth and depth of experience in Murry that is lacking in Foley.

Surprising no one. Foley has been with TPS for years and his experience will reflect that. Murry hopscotched from job to job during the same period, providing his services to highest bidder. I don

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

We're comparing the three candidates for the TPS superintendent job to Murry. Foley has experience running TPS. The other two candidates are currently running school districts. Murry hasn't been a school administrator since Reagan was President.

"The question we should all ask is why was a well qualified individual with a knowledge of our community not asked to interview?"

How is having last served as an school administrator nearly twenty years ago make someone qualified to run a large school district today?

Look, if you're friends with the guy, just let us know. But saying that Murry is well qualified is blatantly incorrect.

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

That a professor at a major college would have not have at least reviewed a personal bio that is placed on an easily-searchable web page. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't let anyone I worked for randomly place a bio online without reviewing it first. I've known several people who had a bio published by their employers and they either wrote it or reviewed it before it was published.

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Madjack...I don't see that h.b. is asking questions unlike some we've all asked of others.

I know Dr. Murray and happen to like him quite a bit. Knowing him, I think he could do the job - but I'll admit that I didn't go over his resume or the resumes of the other candidates.

I've already said that my preference, had I been on the board, would have been to give special consideration to any local people who applied.

If we're going to pay to have some women who got fired (and wouldn't turn over her performance evaluation to her board) to come in for an interview, why wouldn't we have given special consideration to any candidate who was already here and would have a 'leg up' on the situation in our TPS system? Local candidates certainly have a perspective on the schools that outsiders don't have. This could be both good and bad...

However, I'm not saying I'd hire him, because that would depend upon other factors. But so many people who are quick to dismiss him because of how long it's been since he was in a school system are also the same people who say we should pay more for buying locally. (Don't know if h.b. has taken this position or not, but others have.) We should buy local but not hire local?

But h.b. is asking why, individually, we think he was worth an interview. I don't think it's a bad question or intrusive. If you do, please explain...or not. But, imho, I think the intense criticism of h.b. is not warranted...

Yes, I do know Earl Murry! I have known him for 10 years. Just nobody asked and I have been asking a question. Did so at talkingtps.com.

TPS has gotten itself into this mess because it always looks for the "educator" and so do so many other underperforming districts! Perhaps it is time for someone with other experiences - more non traditional.

As to you Madjack - you can have your opinion, but I am going to disagree with you on this issue big time.

And I will admit I don't want someone who has been part of the problem running the problem. But alas, I doubt I get my wish as the fix has been in since they set him up as interim superintendent.

Murry moved to other jobs because he was in demand (is that not what they said about Sanders) and he saw upwardly mobile opportunities. I have had a number of jobs over the years. It is called experience - many of which I would never have had without moving on!

I actually see this as a benefit. If you look at running this district as that of running a mid sized American company ($450 million budget), how many of these guys would be in the running given their background? We need some business and organization skills - you can always hire a chief academic officer, but in Murry's case he has the curriculum skills as well!

Cheers

That's generally something you'd want to disclaim right off the bat.

TPS has gotten itself into this mess because it always looks for the "educator" and so do so many other underperforming districts! Perhaps it is time for someone with other experiences - more non traditional.

Since 1987, Dr. Murry has been an educator. Look at his CV.

If you look at running this district as that of running a mid sized American company ($450 million budget), how many of these guys would be in the running given their background?

At least two of the three finalists. The two outside candidates have been running large school districts.

We need some business and organization skills - you can always hire a chief academic officer, but in Murry's case he has the curriculum skills as well!

He's never run a company, he's been a department head a few times, but hasn't served in that capacity for years. If you want someone with business and organizational skills, either one of the three remaining candidates is more qualified than Murry.

But anyways, as OhioKat, MadJack, and I have asked: What specifically qualifies Dr. Murry for this position? What on his resume would make up for the lack of administrative experience in school districts over the last twenty years? And what is not shown on his CV that would give us a good idea as to why he should have been interviewed? And no, because he was available" is not a valid reason as to why he wasn't interviewed. I had nothing important going on that day and I've got management experience, why not interview me too?

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.