Hizzoner blocks WSPD from press conference

Carty blocks WSPD from press conference...does anyone have details on this? One more example of someone off the rocker...it seems like there is more and more of this recently... what is going on?

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WSPD's website has an explanation, and I've already blogged about this. I expect this will gain national attention, considering the mountain of court cases which relate to freedom of the press.

Here is a link to Maggie's post: here 13ABC has a story on it: here Time until Dec 31, 2009

Didn't Brian S. come in to muzzle this kind of thing? Didn't the Mayor have government classes in high school? Didn't I just finish a tirade about meeting stuff and public access?

(Bangs head on desk)

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

What in the world is going on at Government Center? Keyword = Government

Does our mayor not realize he is committing multiple faux pas? That he is challenging Constitional law?

On the other hand I don't see what Brian Wilson and Kevin Milliken were doing pushing into the press conference, other than to assert themselves. WSPD already had a reporter at the press conference. I am a little lost at the desired effectiveness that this maneuver was intended to have.

I am ashamed of Carty and Schwartz for pulling this stunt, and the other media outlets for not standing up and saying "If you aren't honoring their 1st Amendment rights, then perhaps you won't be honoring mine."

I realize that's idealistic, but it would certainly make Carty wonder if his babble was actually worth hearing.

And, by the way, just how is he coming along with appointing a new Economic Development Director since Council is not going to authorize a temp funding for this area?

This was just childish, trying to hold the door shut so that the people whose opinion you do not like cannot come in. Kind of reminds me of a stunt my cousin pulled once.

Only difference is we were both in kindergarten. Grow up Carty - this is embarrassing. Betcha' it goes AP....

No wonder people aren't moving into Toledo - we're known for Nazi's, a riot and Carty Finkbeiner.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

If you look at the video on ABC's local site, you can actually see the marbles in Brian Wilson's mouth. But seriously, what are the rules for press conferences? How many reporters from one station need to cover the event? According to White House press rules (I know, different ballgame): "To receive a hard pass, a journalist must submit a letter confirming that he or she works for a legitimate news organization". Wether WSPD is a legitimate news organization is debatable

Pink Slip

diaper change.

while wspd is not without fault, carty and company need to grow up terribly. he is making this city look foolish.

just remember.....carty gets results.

This is very juvenile behavior for the mayor of a city with.. uh.. so much "pride" but it's clearly not a 1st amendment issue.

A WSPD news reporter was in attendance at both press conferences. Not to mention the fact that Miliken--not in print or broadcast--is not a news reporter. He's a features & opinion guy all the way.

I've raised this issue on my blog, but I'm also raising it here...

Some seem to make a distinction between a reporter and a 'talk-show host.' However, the first amendment makes no such distinction.

Kevin is a representative of a media outlet. Helen Thomas is a columnist (she's no longer a reporter). Should either of them be excluded from a public press conference in a public building because the elected official doesn't think they are objective? Should either of them be excluded because other representatives from their media organizations are present?

If Carty can keep someone from a public press conference, can he keep them from other public meetings under the same pretense?

I'd like to look past the personalities, and instead at the issue of media access. In doing so, I can't help but conclude that Carty's decision to exclude a member of the media was a very poor decision.

Isn't blogging a media outlet? Maggie, would you be in full defense of bloggers being allowed to attend a press conference? And someone mentioned the White House, why can the White House limit who can come to a press conference or their media day or whatever, but Carty isn't able to define what qualifies as "press"?

Like it was mentioned earlier, WSPD already had a reporter at this press conference. Their media was already being represented. The FACT is that Kevin Milliken is an opinion writer who just so happens to have a highly unfavorable opinion of Carty. This is a publicity stunt on Brian Wilson and Kevin Milliken's part.

Where do you draw the line on who is exactly press. Maggie describes it as media outlet.

me

Toledo ++, good question. I'd say that yes, any member of the public can attend a public press conference. There are often individuals associated with a particular announcement present - and other elected officials, in addition to the media.

I think the White House has different rules because of security - they don't just let anyone on the grounds and, having been a visitor in the Old Executive Office Building next door to the WH, I can tell you that the admittance is pretty stringent - even for someone pre-screened with an appointment.

So a comparison to restrictions at the White House are not the same as restrictions in 1 Government Center.

Further, the 'reason' for ban - as stated by Brian Schwartz at the time - is, IMHO, a critical point. He wasn't banned for security or space issues - he was banned because Carty didn't like his work product.

As for bloggers - I believe this is going to be a bigger question as time goes on. Some bloggers have already received press credentials, but I'm not aware of any court cases which have defined bloggers as 'media' representatives.

Further, you seem to be making a point that because WSPD had a person there, they're not allowed to have someone else? Columnists routinely attend press conferences even when reporters for their outlets are present. And tv stations often send both a reporter and a camera crew - even when a camera operator can perform an interview without an on-air talent present.

But these are all just side details that mask the problem...According to the Constitution and numerous court cases, Carty doesn't have any authority to decide who the media are, or who gets to cover his press conferences. But he does get to decide whether or not he answers their questions at such press conferences.

As for this being a stunt by WSPD...are you saying that WSPD planned for Kevin to be banned from a press conference? Somehow, I just don't see the mayor going along with that... :)

I'm a blogger and I am not bound by the same rules journalists are. Nor do I have the same constitutional rights as a journalist would have.

I would not be allowed at media press conferences unless I was issued a specific invitation as I do not have a press pass.

Even in my weekly column for the Toledo Free Press I am a blogger writing for the Free Press not a traditional paid journalist. Can blogging be considered a "media source"? Of course, but there are no rules that bloggers are required to follow. Some of us have developed our own personal code of ethics similar to journalism but others have not.

It's actually been discussed quite a bit in different parts of the blogosphere and the "traditional" media

We don't remember days only moments...

Press conferences are public events. Anyone should be able to attend. Prohibiting anyone is not right. You can have your issues with reporters, but don't make it personal and take it so extreme. This is just bad.

Also, I think a new breed of reporters are developing. A mix between reporter, observer, informer and columnist. The blogs and technology have created it. Am I a reporter or Kate? Yes and no. But should either of us be prohibited from a press conference no. Actually Larry Sykes has tried to prohibit Kate from recording meetings giving poor excuses. Anyone who is afraid of this, mayor or school board member are the ones that have things to hide.

Side note: WSPD is working to get Carty's reasons for prohibiting media into a public press conference on their Web site.

Attending a public meeting is different than what took place at the Mayor's office. There are events where Press creditials are required and bloggers don't have press creditials. I don't compare what happened to Kate as the same as what happened today or yesterday with Kevin. Kate was at a public meeting open to members of the community. Now if one of you wanted to attend a closed door executive session could you? Of course not. If I wanted to attend a White House news briefing as a blogger could I? Of course not.

Citizen activists or Citizen Journalists are not given the same access as the traditional press. Now if you want to demand that every press conference be open to the public, then different rules would apply.

We don't remember days only moments...

The primary themes common to most codes of journalistic standards and ethics are the following.
Objectivity:
Unequivocal separation between news and opinion. In-house editorials and opinion (Op-Ed) pieces are clearly separated from news pieces. News reporters and editorial staff are distinct.
Unequivocal separation between advertisements and news. All advertisements must be clearly identifiable as such.
Reporter must avoid conflicts of interest " incentives to report a story with a given slant. This includes not taking bribes and not reporting on stories that affect the reporter's personal, economic or political interests. See envelope journalism.
Competing points of view are balanced and fairly characterized.
Persons who are the subject of adverse news stories are allowed a reasonable opportunity to respond to the adverse information before the story is published or broadcast.
Interference with reporting by any entity, including censorship, must be disclosed
There is of course more.
Which is why it is hard to look at this issue without raising the valid question of definitions, especially when it comes to standard journalistic ethics and practices. Also another reason I state I am not a journalist.

We don't remember days only moments...

Tom Watkins posted this info on my blog:

Nationally recognized Law Professor Dr. David Harris of the UT Law School, will weigh in on the Carty 1st amendment issue and other legal matters affecting all of us, on Thursday's Toledo Today program. He will be on the air at 8:22 a.m. on WTOD 1560. Please fell free to call in 1 888 578 1560, during the program.

We don't remember days only moments...

Lisa Renee has some very good points on bloggers versus journalists...as always.

But another question - considering the legal implications and the first amendment issues, does anything think that Carty or Brian S. consulted with the city law department before taking this action?

In the film footage it was obvious that the law department had been notified of this incident when they showed two detectives sitting in the chairs in the lobby of Carty's office and John Madigan standing there next to them. It looked to me like the detectives were grinning and trying to cover it over. I'm sure they had nothing else to do other than sit in Carty's office and provide 'inferred interference' to a group of reporters.

Aside from all the melodrama, it is important for us to remember that Carty, as Mayor of Toledo, has many things to deal with. BUT - he should not be picking and choosing the media outlets that he feels will provide him with an "Atta Boy" instead of some kind of criticism. He needs to learn from the criticisms and expand his ideas and practices accordingly. It is possible to be respectful of the office without being a fan of the office-holder.

I do believe that this whole incident is going to be reverberating around our city (and NW Ohio) for quite some time. Sadly.

To me, this 1st Amendment challenge is extremely important. I am not a reporter of any type, but adherence to our Constitution is important beyond belief. The outcome of all this will have far-reaching implications and we (the public) need to stay vigilant. I'm not willing to sacrifice any more of my rights than have already been stripped - but that's another story....

For Mr. Finkbeiner to claim the right to determine which representatives of the media are "legitimate" is an affront to the First Amendment. This responsibility lies with individual media outlets, not with government officials.

More thoughts about this on my blog.

Excuse me, Maggie, if I feel that you have zero credibility in issues like this.

The president to which you and your husband illegally funneled Noe money is the KING of punishing journalists for going "off the reservation."

Granted, they're a lot more covert: You won't see Tony Snow wrestling with would-be White House correspondents, but you can't spit in the blogosphere without hitting people with stories of being denied access due to unfavorable press coverage.

Now, I do think that Democrats should never sink to the level of George Bush, but can't we forgo the righteous indignation, or at least spread it around equally?

Shane, haven't you ever made a mistake? Maggie paid for hers, and i think her credibility is just fine, she has been in the public service for what 14 years? I think she is qualified to give her opinion.

Also this is about farty carty starting his shit again. I think he's an iddiot personally and im a democrat.

"This is about anti-carty people starting their shit again. I think they're idiots personally and I'm a democrat." ShaneH -

Shane you don't say :-)

Can't we all just get along?

Seriously - please don't try to muzzle Maggie - she's in a position to give qualified information on the topic. How does it help anybody to try to silence her when she's one of the few politicians who talks to the public?

Think it through to the end. What would be the result if every politician who tries discussing things with the public was treated the way you just treated Maggie? They'd stop communicating and others who see the rough treatment would never start.

We need MORE dialogue with our public servants - not less.

As SUCH back to the topic - does anybody have any idea if WSPD is going to pursue a legal (translate that to expense to us if the city has to defend against an action) action?

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

"And call me crazy, but if it was Bob McCloskey that I was criticizing I doubt you'd rush so precipitously to his defense."

Sure i would, he's made a mistake and he's paying for it.

And im sorry if i sounded rude to you, i wasn't trying to be. but Carty's antics just, in my own opinion, makes this city look stupid. And i am personally embarrased by his behavior. Also we shouldn't forget what started this whole thing - his behavior at the ottawa county jail.

I've always liked Carty. To quote a George Stephanopoulos in his book about Clinton, Carty is "all too human."

He cares passionately about Toledo. I can see that plainly. And when I was a boy in the early 90's I was in the front yard of my Point Place home while my dad was doing an oil change on the car. Carty was going door to door and he walked right up and shaked my dads disgusting oil covered hand without the slightest hesitation or flinch. That's a political skill more than anything else, but it goes a long way to explaining his popularity in Toledo: People can relate to him.

And he's been given non-stop shit from people with chips on their shoulders from the day he took office. It's about as dumb as the 'recall carty' campaign, which, I'm sure, will try again and which, i'm sure, will again be unsuccessful.

So forgive me for taking the Carty bashing with a grain of salt. Like the boy that's cried wolf, it's been played out over such minutia that the anti-carty crowd has lost all credibility with me. It's sad, but the personal feelings of these people have made it nearly impossible for me to hear any of the Carty attacks without immediately attributing it to obvious bias.

Yup - if it were anyone else I would have said the same. All people have many experiences in life, make alot of decisions. Some are right, some are wrong and some aren't in the ballpark. To say that isn't true would be a lie. So yes, my values apply to people. Period. I like some of them, don't like others. That changes, but my values don't need to.

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but she wasn't posting these kinds of things when she was an elected official." <-- shaneh.

Sorry to tell you, but you're wrong. She's been blogging on her own blog for quite some time, and discussing things and helping people find information over at www.toledotalk.com for some time.

"Do you realize that the person you're defending--Miliken--is having this trouble precicely because HE CRITICIZED A PUBLIC SERVANT. Why are you not on Milikens case for all the complaining he did about Carty? Why are you not on Thurbers case for also attacking Carty for trivial things like whether he has a dog in his office or not? Is this not criticism of the same ilk that you just jumped on my back for?" <--shaneh

You're missing the boat here.....IF we can get past the huge issue of a Mayor who doesn't think the Bill of Rights applies to HIM - we can talk about opinion/editorial and the subtle nuances.

That's what I'm worried about. Is it not HUGE that not only the Mayor but his assistant are playing games like this, with freedom of the press issues? Because they don't LIKE what somebody else's says? Does it seem like a co-incidence that OUR law director, aid to the Mayor and the Mayor would all co-incidentally have the same misunderstanding of the 1st Amendment? That it's ok to bar reporters you don't like? Or does it speak to an atmosphere of control and disregard for rights in the City offices?

Isn't that a far, far cry from public service?

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

ShaneH - first, several points. You seem to think that by directing attention to me that you can negate Carty's bad behavior. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's my impression. Further, even if the President does the exact same thing, it doesn't change my position - and shouldn't change anyone's position - that this is wrong and shouldn't be allowed.

I'm not personally aware of Bush restricting access to press conferences because he doesn't like what a media person has said - unlike this instance with Carty. If he has, then I do not believe that it's right and he should be held accountable. Since you seem to think he's done the exact same thing as Carty, please provide proof.

Also, you are not qualified to judge my personal support of any elected official. You don't know me - only what you've seen of me publicly.

I don't agree with the President on many issues - and I don't expect to agree with him 100% (I don't even agree with my husband 100%). Besides - support for an elected official does not mean that you forfeit all right to criticize.

If something is wrong, it's wrong. I make no distinctions about "who" it is - despite your claim that I do. And if it's wrong for one, it's wrong for all... (no hypocrisy there.)

This isn't about me...this isn't about President Bush. This is about our mayor and his actions. And my hope is that your attempt to try and deflect the discussion away from Carty and, instead, to me and the President has failed.

And another thing...even if I was being hypocritical - so what?

Does it change what Carty's done? Does it change any of the other comments here and on other blogs that say this is wrong? Does it change the opinion of any of the other posters that Carty shouldn't have behaved in this way?

nope...don't think so.

USC's Annenberg Center's Online Journalism Review has a very timely article about the rights off online journalists.
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/stories/Pearson070105/

The early part of the article talks about all journalists, with the online stuff toward the middle.

Robert Cox of the Media Bloggers Association noted:
"Let's start with this: Freedom isn't free. If you're going to publish, and bloggers are publishers, and you can't back up what you're writing with lawyers and resources to pay for all of that, you're not going to last very long." That's why, Cox said, the MBA is negotiating with the insurance industry to offer liability insurance that bloggers can tap in the event of a legal fight.

"Press conferences are public events. Anyone should be able to attend. Prohibiting anyone is not right. You can have your issues with reporters, but don't make it personal and take it so extreme. This is just bad."

Sorry, but press conferences are just that -- for the press. Carty's held town hall meetings open to the public, this isn't it. This is specifically for press officials with credentials.

I think Lisa nailed it with her posts that lines are being blurred as to what constitutes the press. Also, Maggie you state the White House is stringent for security purposes, but what makes you think we should be lax in security for One Government Center? Seems to be like a double standard. Why wouldn't the Toledo Blade be able to sit in on a White House press conference?

"Shane, haven't you ever made a mistake? Maggie paid for hers, and i think her credibility is just fine, she has been in the public service for what 14 years? I think she is qualified to give her opinion.

Also this is about farty carty starting his shit again. I think he's an iddiot personally and im a democrat."

And Carty isn't qualified either with his amount of public service? Carty's credibility isn't fine because of some personality flaws and mistakes he's made? Granted, he did look like an asshole with his past jail house blues but it's a mistake nonetheless as Maggie's was. Just admit it, this is more about an opportunity to target Carty than it is for the defense of the 1st Amendment.

"And Carty isn't qualified either with his amount of public service?"

Good point TPP, but i didnt question his qualifications. i said this

"Carty's antics just, in my own opinion, makes this city look stupid. And i am personally embarrased by his behavior"

Which i am embarrased by the way he acts. Ok fine he's passionate but he also acts IN MY OPINION like a spoiled little brat and his temper tantrum at the jail just proved it. as for Maggie and her mistakes i dont recall her throwing a temper tantrum for not getting her own way, she at least had the decency to remaim professional about it.

"Oh my god, he built a shower"

Well my problem with that is he circumvented city councils approval and he spent almost $10,000! I dont know about you but i dont apreciate the mayor spending $10,000 of tax payers money for a fucking shower!

"Oh my god, he added lighting"

Money that could have been spent perhaps fixing up some of the roads or something? But i can let that one go, it was an improvement to the city so thats ok.

"Oh my god, he fired the police chief"

He probably deserved it, or rather the mayor might not have wanted to hear about the gang problem that he insists toledo doesn't have. Who knows?

"Oh my god, he re-hired the police chief"

So what? He had his reasons.

"Oh my god, his administration hired a person with past DUI convictions"

Well that would have been fine if he was doing a job that doesnt require him to drive a city vehicle.

"Oh my god, he brought a dog to work"

Ok whatever, this isn't no biggie unless his secretary or someone is alergic.

I don't like Brian Wilson and Kevin Milliken. They are rude, boorish and represent yellow journalism at its worst. In that sense I don't blame Carty for ejecting them from a press conference. In fact, I think it would be good fun to watch a couple street monsters from the TPD give these two the bum's rush all the way out to the curb.
However that may be, for legal purposes these two yahoos represent the press. This is unfortunate.
I haven't seen much mention of the slippery slope towards restricting the press and free speech, and that bothers me a little. People are upset because Wilson and Milliken were tossed out. What if this were two free lance journalists that Lord Carlton disliked? Would the publicity be the same? And if not, would a precedent have been set? While I don't like these two, I'll go a long way in support of their right to attend what ever press conference they choose.
I agree that this was a major mistake on Carty's part, and a bigger mistake on the part of his sycophants whose job it is to protect Carty from Himself [SIC] and others. Now, because Carty has shot Himself in the foot yet again, the city is liable to have to spend Our Tax Dollars defending Mayor Short Fuse in court.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

if you haven't already, carty's judgement should be seriously questioned.

why play these games and pick these fights? whether it's his battles with wspd or the new ottawa county "conspiracy" (or his $9995 shower, emergency light funding, costco, ironworks, bike paths, dui driver, etc) he just doesn't get it. it seems some confuse his arrogance and ego for "passion".

regardless, he has a city to run. instead, he constantly plays little kid games.

grow up and get over yourself, carty!

Maybe we should let Jay Leno or David Letterman into a press conference too. They're not entertainers or anything, they're the "press". (sarcasm).

why play these games and pick these fights? whether it's his battles with wspd or the new ottawa county "conspiracy" (or his $9995 shower, emergency light funding, costco, ironworks, bike paths, dui driver, etc) he just doesn't get it. it seems some confuse his arrogance and ego for "passion".

regardless, he has a city to run. instead, he constantly plays little kid games.

grow up and get over yourself, carty!

Get over yourself. You don't think Fred's shoving down the door act was immature as well? How about WSPD's ban on the mayor from talking on their station?

Second, Maggie is "one of the few politicians who talks to the public" because she's no longer a politician. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she wasn't posting these kinds of things when she was an elected official.
----------------------------------------

Oh, yes, she was. You're sadly mistaken. Apparently, you never visted Toledo Talk in its heyday.

"So....Do you want the blue pill...or the red one?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Second, Maggie is "one of the few politicians who talks to the public" because she's no longer a politician. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she wasn't posting these kinds of things when she was an elected official.
----------------------------------------

Oh, yes, she was. You're sadly mistaken. Apparently, you never visted Toledo Talk in its heyday.

Yes, she has and I have a tremendous amount of respect for her because of that. HOWEVER, that doesn't give her any special protection when it comes to being criticized. If Carty makes a mistake, it's ok to bash the hell out of him. When Maggie makes a mistake, everyone is supposed to be hush hush. Bullshit. And when you post something on a public forum, it's open season to be scrutinized and criticized regardless of who you are.

Get over yourself. You don't think Fred's shoving down the door act was immature as well? How about WSPD's ban on the mayor from talking on their station?

did wspd take advantage of the situation? sure, but carty made it all possible with his behavior. additionally, that ban would not have happened if it weren't for carty's runaway mouth and ego.

my expectations may be too high. i would think our city's leader would be "bigger" than most of this childish crap.

stop making excuses for him and admit he's an absolute embarrasment to our city.

...

wholesaler, I'm not making excuses for him. He certainly should have been the bigger man in this case. Do I think Kevin Milliken has the press credentials to be considered for a press conference -- no. Do I think WSPD and their dumbass crew are taking advantage of the situation to cover for their lackluster ratings -- yes. Do I think WSPD is contributing to the mockery of Toledo -- yes. Do I think Carty's antics embarass the city -- certainly, especially with the recent jail house blues.

However, I will stand up for him against the usual anti-Carty crowd who love to whine and bitch about petty things such as a damn dog in One Government Center. Maggie says to look past the personalities, yet I can't help wonder how many people are really doing just that.

"additionally, that ban would not have happened if it weren't for carty's runaway mouth and ego."

Perhaps it was that same ego and runaway mouth (Kevin's of course) that caused his ban, not to mention that he is NOT a reporter but rather an opinion editor/writer/whatever and is clearly pushing the lines of what constitutes as "press". A true reporter would allow for the other party to say their piece. WSPD in banning Carty, but at the same time leveling criticisms and attacks on him, does not give that other party the chance to give their side. Not to mention, a reporter doesn't criticize or attack (not supposed to at least), they are to report the news and leave the attacks for us.

But, with all that aside, Carty SHOULD have been the bigger man and let the little weasel inside but rather chose not to answer to his petty attacks.

Carty obviously refuses to meet with these colorful radio personalities since they probably carry a list of hard questions which Carty will never answer. What? You ask "what questions"? Why, they're listed in the Dec 6th "Toledo Free Press", in a guest opinion column by Brian Wilson. What's that again? Your "legs are broken" and you "can't get to the library" to get a copy? Well, allow me to repeat (in abbreviated form) some of those numbered questions from my copy (which I've saved for posterity):
Hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars have been spent to subsidize the Erie Street Market. How long will you continue to support what by any measure is an unsuccessful venture and waste of taxpayer dollars?
Why isn't the city keeping it's [sic] commitment to Ironhead Marine, which would create new, good-paying jobs for the city?
[...] Why the secrecy about public dollars and how they are spent?

No sarcasm in this question...just honest inquiry.

I understand that the reason given for Carty's banishment from the talk shows was because he accused Fred Lefevbre of telling 'half-truths, mis-truths, and out-right lies' and that he wasn't going to be allowed back such shows until he apologized.

What is the reason given for Carty's focus on Kevin, instead of Fred?

What is the reason given for Carty's focus on Kevin, instead of Fred?

Good question. I'm going to guess it's the same reasoning I've provided, that Kevin doesn't constitute a true press reporter. However, Carty might have his own reasons and if he's banning him because of personal grudges... then I think we have problems.

GZ, what's wrong with a bike path? Sylvania has a few of them, and their used extensively. What makes you think that bike path is an asset that will be well used in Toledo?

"However, if the mayor can deny access to a public event on public property to those whose commentary he dislikes, we're all in trouble."

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070112/OPINION02...

WSPD is the smart-ass playground punk that delights in poking, prodding and manipulating the overly-emotional, certain-to-fly-off-the-handle other kid, knowing full well the reactions that ensue will land that kid in after-school detention and provide a nice laugh for the other kiddies as they stand outside the window making faces at the after-school sucker.

Carty is unable to walk away from this baloney and focus on his job, and WSPD won't let him, because this is all probably a nice ratings bonanza, and so we have the Springer show in downtown Toledo.

Glass City Jungle has a nice thread going on over 1st amendment issues. You will see WSPD's response to the Sun case as well as Brian Swartz posting his stance on the issue.

http://glasscityjungle.com/wordpress/?p=802#more-802

GZ, what's wrong with a bike
Submitted by ToledoPlusPlus on Fri, 2007-01-12 11:54.

GZ, what's wrong with a bike path? Sylvania has a few of them, and their used extensively. What makes you think that bike path is an asset that will be well used in Toledo?

(Falls over and stares at ceiling....twitching.....)

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

While I've posted numerous comments in this thread in support of Carty, I want to reiterate what i said in my very first post:

This was dumb, juvenile, irresponsible, and HORRIBLE politics on behalf of the mayor. It should've never happened and it could've been prevented by either side had they acted responsibly.

My only opinion in support of Carty here is that it's not unconstitutional. And even if you think this is the 40th time you feel Carty has embarrassed Toledo, it's STILL not unconstitutional.

I see the argument of why it COULD be, and I'd agree if a WSPD reporter wasn't allowed to attend.

I just wanted to say my peace about that. Freedom of the press is maybe the most important first amendment right, since they're the ones that would help mobilize citizens in event of the others being abridged. I take it seriously, but this just does not fit that criteria.

Next time I'm in Washington I will try to attend a White House press conference and see just how open to the public it is. I bet if I tried to push my way in I'd get arrested.

So maybe Carty and his administration need to develop media/press rules regarding press conferences. Regardless, this wasn't a 1st Amendment offense, but more so a distasteful way of handling a situation.

Not being a constitutional lawyer, I don't know for sure, but I'm leaning on the violation of rights side.

However, I agree with you wholeheartedly, Toledo++, that the mayor needs a good policy - one that has been reviewed by the legal minds and then clearly communicated to the press - with an effective date so that there's no confusion.

So if the white house can create rules on who they let in, then how aren't their rules a violation of the first amendment? It seems to me that if the constitution is the constitution, then it doesn't make sense for predetermined rules to have constitutional protection while a snap decision to not allow people in doesn't (particularly in the second incident where their media organization is already represented by somebody else). It's very clear to me that WSPD was trying to put on a show.

Also, if I were arrested by the secret service for trying to push my way in, I bet you they would be lauded, where as here, Brian Schwartz is heavily criticized for trying to close a locked door. Maybe I'm totally off base, but I think Mr. Schwartz's actions were reasonable, particularly after he let in one of WSPD's reporters.

...

Absolutely agree with you on the clear cut policy. Written policies don't leave grey areas, they are black and white and things like this won't have to be interpreted.

Not being a constitutional lawyer, I don't know for sure, but I'm leaning on the violation of rights side.

I certainly see the argument, but I tend to side with Professor Harris's (read from Glass City Jungle) argument that the station's rights were not violated. Not to mention that I don't honestly see Kevin as a reporter, but thats my own opinion.

Regardless, I hate to beat a dead horse with the White House argument but if they are able to screen who is allowed in a press conference, why can't a local mayor? I see the security argument, however, I'd hope no one is suggesting that security shouldn't be implemented at One Government Center.

Yes Maggie, but when you're making a constitutional argument, you cannot make an exception. Many people, for instance, believe that the local government is more important that the federal government in the respect that it has a greater effect on their lives. Indeed, in a truly libertarian world, the local governments would have more of an effect on everyday people, and indeed, they likely do in our current government. Regardless, you can't say the constitution means one thing to the president and another to the mayor. The bottom line is that the constitution is the constitution - it should apply to everyone equally.

Additionally, security is one thing, but saying who can and can't report like the president does is another. I'm not saying this is a Bush thing, for all Presidents do it, but they only have so much room. Similarly, WSPD had their newsreporter at that press conference BEFORE the talk show hosts pulled their ridiculous stunt to improve ratings. Let's be honest here, this whole thing is a joke to make Carty and Brian look bad, when in fact, WSPD deserves the blame.

well, Junta - aren't you the one studying law? Has this been discussed in any of your classes?

Maybe it's better to say that the WH has developed policies for how press conferences are going to be covered. As a result, there is no 'barring' of an individual who's previously covered press conferences because he has written/said something the president doesn't like.

You continue to say that the fact you can't waltz into a WH press conference is the same as Carty refusing to admit a 'reporter' with whom he disagrees. And the decision to not admit said 'reporter' was rather sudden - in that Kevin had been covering his press conferences since the start of the whole brouhaha.

I continue to disagree that they're the same. I think that the term 'arbitrary' comes into play here.

What does your legal training tell you about arbitrary actions? Does that have any applicability to this situation?

The WH has rules and procedures. I've agreed that the mayor should probably do the same.

Well, as I'm not a lawyer, I'm not allowed to give legal advice without supervision. Have I studied this specific situation, absolutely not. But when everyone is saying that this is a first amendment violation, it raises the question of how the white house does not violate the first amendment by having their rules. I'm asking you because you have experience as a leader in the community. Also, I thought it was an adequate example to make people think. I'm not trying to make a statement, I'm merely trying to make people think about the situation outside of Lucas County. Do those who claim that the 22nd floor of Government Center is public domain also believe that the press room of the White House is public domain? I don't know, I just thought I'd ask. Then I raised the question of whether the secret service was comparable to Mr. Schwartz protecting the confines of the Mayor's office.

My point, however, is that the first amendment does not distinguish between the white house and the mayor's office, through the fourteenth amendment. The same right to free press exists in both systems, they are not distinguishable. In other words, there is no "arbitrary" when it comes to the constitution.

It isn't as though Mr. Milliken can't prove he is or is not a reporter. Reporters are credentialed. As are press photographers. Talk show hosts are not credentialed.

And no, you cannot choose which reporter, or how many a paper or news program is allowed to send to cover the news.

You cannot notify only the news outlets you LIKE about press conferences. (These are known as birthday parties rather than official press conferences. If you want to have a meeting with just your friends - only those who please you with what they say, throw a party at your house).

Some folks find that they do, in fact, need a judge to explain these basic concepts to them.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Reporters are credentialed. As are press photographers. Talk show hosts are not credentialed.

I believe "Eye On Toledo" is a talk show, is it not? I believe Kevin is also an opinion writer at the TFP, is he not? His "Mouthing Off" section is listed under "Opinion" of the TFP. So by your definition, Kevin is not a reporter, therefore not credentialed to go into a "press" conference.

Where is the 1st Amendment rights offense?

No wholesaler, that was not a joke. And unfortunately Guestzero, you are wrong (see my white house example above).

The National Conference for Media Reform published their policy for obtaining press credentials...interesting way they did this.

http://www.freepress.net/conference/=Press07

Media Arts Center in San Diego has a category for 'free lancers' in their credential application:

http://www.mediaartscenter.org/site/c.dfLIJPOvHoE/b.1345499/k.AB90/Press...

The Kentucky Derby has the following:
"A Derby Festival Media badge should allow easy access for coverage of most official Derby Festival events. Working press will receive credentials beginning April 10. Application for credentials should be made by the News Assignment Editor on the company's letterhead.
I was looking to see if there was anything on line for Ohio, but couldn't find anything easily...

I will not hold my breath wholesaler. After all, it's not my fault most of you don't see who is right in situation. As much as I am critical of carty, which I am, he is in the right here. I applaud the efforts of Brian Schwartz as well. The mayor's office is not only within its rights, but also should be lauded for their efforts to protect the mayor. WSPD does not need to send four people to one press conference, and WSPD and the three people who tried to break through a locked door should be charged with a crime.

While Sean Hannity (radio Talk Show host) can get a one-on-one interview with the president and most likely would be welcomed with Open Arms at a WH press conference, Al Franken (radio Talk Show host) probably could not get a pass to the Men's room.

I do not particularly care for either of these two, just making a comparison. If it's OK for the president to pick and choose, why not the mayor?

If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth. ~Japanese Proverb

Brian Schwartz has stated on my blog that the law director was "consulted and informed."

I've made a lot of mistakes, but the issue here is not so much that she aided Noe, it's that the beneficiary of the aid--Bush--is guilty of the SAME OFFENSES that she's criticizing Carty for.

I know that it pains you that Carty was elected in such a landslide, but you really should learn to deal with that.

This is about anti-carty people starting their shit again. I think they're idiots personally and I'm a democrat.

First, read the comment by "TM." The "Anti-carty people starting their shit" line was my parody of TM.

Second, Maggie is "one of the few politicians who talks to the public" because she's no longer a politician. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she wasn't posting these kinds of things when she was an elected official.

Third, please try to appreciate the irony here. I criticize a "public servant" for, among other things, blatant hypocrisy. I'm then derided by people here. I'm told that I should not have said what I said because "we need MORE dialog with our public servants" I'm told that it's detrimental to criticize a public official because "what would be the result if every politician ... was treated this way?"

Do you realize that the person you're defending--Miliken--is having this trouble precicely because HE CRITICIZED A PUBLIC SERVANT. Why are you not on Milikens case for all the complaining he did about Carty? Why are you not on Thurbers case for also attacking Carty for trivial things like whether he has a dog in his office or not? Is this not criticism of the same ilk that you just jumped on my back for?

Maggie Thurber is no more or less important to me than anybody here. I think she would probably agree with that. She deserves no special points because she used to hold a public office. She has taken a stance that cutting WSPDs access down to a single reporter is a bad thing and a violation of the first amendment, when she has spent years supporting a President that has done just that. That's hypocrisy and she deserves to be called out on it.

I mean, she's leveling serious charges: That the Mayor has violated the US Constitution. That's a long way from complaining about Cartys dog (although, it's interesting to point out that the President also brings a dog to work).

And to add insult to injury here, not only does she bite her tounge when it comes to criticizing Bush, she has supported him so vigorously as to actually break the law to help him win.

Sorry if you feel that any former politician is a sacred cow that shouldn't be questioned. I really don't feel that way. And call me crazy, but if it was Bob McCloskey that I was criticizing I doubt you'd rush so precipitously to his defense.

I have only just read the first line of your post, but I will go on to read the rest after I say this:

I didn't mean to single you out in 27 different posts, I intended to only post the first one. And the reason I directed it towards you rather than anyone else was your blog post about the subject. It just so happened that (since I don't read the blade daily) I didn't know many of the details of the WSPD scuffle until I read your blog.

I wanted to post this before I read anything else in your post that took my attention away. My point is that it isn't personal. To me, you've positioned yourself as a bit of a 'spokesperson of the opposition'

If I had access to Lexis it would make my life a lot easier right now, but instead I'll have to rely on Google. This turned out to be more difficult than I expected, mostly because searching for keywords like 'retaliate,' 'journalist,' 'bush', 'white house,' and 'press corps' return a huge number of hits from Bush fiascos like Plamegate, the Jeff Gannon incident, and many many hits for Bush 'retaliating against whistle blowers.'

Nevertheless, I have found a few bullet points for you.

  • Transcript from CNN's _Reliable Sources

    HOWARD KURTZ, CO-HOST: The White House refuses to talk to one magazine. Did Tina Brown's "Talk" magazine go too far with a photo spread satirizing George Bush's daughters as jailbirds? And should Team Bush be retaliating against journalists who offend the"

    More: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0108/11/rs.00.html
  • The entirety of the Jeff Gannon incident where the white house awarded a friendly reporter from an obscure publication with unlimited access to "day passes," while, at the same time, non partisan journalists needed approval--up to 2 weeks ahead of time--to get just a single day pass.
    More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon
  • Tracking phone calls made by journalists of ABC News and the New York Times after they disclosed CIA leak information.
    More: http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/05/federal_source_.html

And this item is from Maryland. It's not about Bush, but it offers an interesting insight to this particular case:

"nd now a follow-up on our story about Maryland Governor Robert Ehrlich, who ordered state employees to stop talking to two "Baltimore Sun" reporters. A U.S. district judge dismissed a lawsuit this week by "The Sun." The governor had barred employees from speaking with reporters because of two incidents, one involving an inaccurate map which ran in the paper, and the other over a columnist's description of an official as "barely keeping a straight face," even though he didn't witness the facial expression in question.

The governor's office says it's pleased by the decision, and that the lawsuit was unwarranted. "Baltimore Sun" editor Tim Franklin says this is, quote, "a clear case of a government official retaliating against people based on what they write and say." The paper plans to appeal."
More: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/20/rs.01.html

I don't feel I need to 'negate' the Mayors behavior. The only thing I personally think he shouldn't have done is actually barricading the press conference. He should've told them that they werent' welcome, and, if they insisted, he should've just cancelled the press conference as he later did anyway.

This is not an issue of "freedom of the press." By your definition, anybody who is on television, radio, or featured in print, on any station, in any publication, anywhere, is a member of the press. This must clearly extend to the internet, meaning that each of us, is, essentially, a member of the press. Because to include Kevin Miliken (sp?) as a "member of the press" you must broaden the definition to mean basically everybody that writes/says something that's read/heard by somebody else.

This is underscored by the fact that a WSPD news reporter _was allowed to attend both conferences_.

And you're right: you can support a person and still criticize them. But your opinion of these activities is that they're in violation of the constitution. Do you think it's OK to support an official who you think has committed crimes against the bill of rights?

And saying that I'm not qualified to judge your support of any elected official? I'm surprised you went there. After all, based on your definition, I'm a member of the press.

"this is more about an opportunity to target Carty"

And this is the source of my indignation against the criticizers.

It's just been an endless stream of anti-carty B.S. since the first day of his term. Hell, since the first day of his FIRST TERM.

"Oh my god, he built a shower"
"Oh my god, he added lighting"
"Oh my god, he fired the police chief"
"Oh my god, he re-hired the police chief"
"Oh my god, his administration hired a person with past DUI convictions"
"Oh my god, he brought a dog to work"
"Oh my god, he's wearing brown shoes and black pants"
"Oh my god, he didn't cover his mouth when he yawned"

It's a played out record. And like I said earlier, I think it really does a disservice to your "anti carty" movement. If the day comes that he really does cross the line, many many people will be so numbed to your carty-criticism that it will seem like just another case of feigned indignation. The boy that cried "Scandal."

Didn't say that. Only said she's always commented, not just since she left office.

"So....Do you want the blue pill...or the red one?"

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Carty's mind works in
mysterious ways. 8^D

"So....Do you want the blue pill...or the red one?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Here's the full column from the Free Press website

Truce in media: WSPD offers an olive branch

you failed to mention this comment of carty's: 'half-truths, mis-truths, and out-right lies'. i'm pretty sure that got the ball rollin'. didn't carty also make backhanded threats to wspd's advertisers? love 'em or hate 'em, wspd is the only critical voice of carty. we all know carty doesn't like that.

regardless, i think it's all discouraging that our mayor continues to get into these child-like skirmishes. did you see carty and his wife last night discussing the jailhouse matter? they're simply not wise enough to let it go. they aren't going to win and, yet, they (he) continue(s) to screw around with stuff like this.

anyhow, the biggest issue to me now will be potential court case involving this 1st amendment issue. who ultimately pays for this? don't we have a $10 million+ debt to deal with?

i just want to jump in here.

is sylvania looking at a $10 million+ budget deficit? toledo is looking at serious financial troubles with a potentially huge deficit. toledo is looking at decreased services and increased taxes and "fees".

apparently, those aren't good enough reasons for carty to rethink the bike path.

as he's riding down his bike path, he should use the moment to announce his scary cuts to the police, fire dept, and trash collection. peddle on, carty, peddle on....and don't stop until you hit kentucky.

The Blade is not slamming Mayor Finkbeiner. The edit board is only stating what is right. While the mayor's office and Brian Schwartz have set a precedent in dealing with WSPD, it cannot continue and it cannot spread.

Props to the Blade for its public stance and comment. Now, where's the outcry from the other Toledo media?

Mike

The mental picture this conjured up is too much for me. I can just see this one, with all the "kids" over 40. That's a howl! And no matter what the after-school kid does to retaliate, he'll catch hell because he, after all, in being punished and therefore is BAD.

I confess. I was one of the kids outside who was teasing the hapless culprit inside. It was funny then, and it's funny now.

McCaskey, you are in rare form today.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

ShaneH, so with your position on this issue, would it be okay to call a media outlet and say, "I don't like reporter A, so don't send him to my press conferences, instead send reporter B"?

before you try, you should probably check their rules...the WH has a press corp/press pool...and then there are those security checks - would you pass one of those, junta? :)

As clarification, courts will often limit the number of cameras that can be in a courtroom and the other media outlets are allowed to use the feed from the one in the courtroom. This also means that the media outlet in the courtroom has to provide the feed. There are some legal restrictions on how the press covers events.

Government Center does have security, provided by a private firm and the state police.

I understand the comparison you're trying to make, but I just don't equate the mayor of Toledo to the president of the United States. We seem to disagree on this aspect.

If someone were to try and push their way into a WH press conference, the Secret Service would presume you meant harm (of some kind). With WSPD pushing their way into the mayor's office...well, some might think they meant harm...

I don't approve of how either side has handled this - but I think it's up to the mayor to try and make it right. Why? Because I think the onus is on the elected official - the servant of the people - to be the bigger person.

One other point, T++, if Carty develops a policy, it might be able to include some screening - though my suggestion would be to incorporate the State Patrol's credentialing...

Junta - everyone agrees that WSPD has gotten significant coverage from this. Are you somehow suggesting that they arranged for Kevin to be banned?

You want to blame WSPD...they should share some of it. But what, in your opinion, started the dispute?

And I go back to another question, which is what brought Carty's focus onto Kevin?

As to the dispute itself, I don't know who or what started it. To me, it seems like a bunch of immature folks who don't realize that it's better to get along with eachother than participate in such nonsense. One of the things I've learned over the last three years is that Toledo has the greatest legal community in the country, and there is no question about that. Everybody is civil, and everybody is friendly. It's not what you see on TV. Honestly, this is the one thing that keeps me thinking I should stay in Toledo. Despite my previous posts, if you met me, I'm sure you would find me very friendly. Also, the legal community loves this town because of its blue collar roots...after all, we are all from these roots and this makes us better people. Toledo will rebuild itself, for it's of a great people. People who leave love it and move back (and if they don't, they want to). People who are not from here who move here love it and don't leave. Why? Because it's a big city with a small atmosphere. But in the same respect, we need to do better. I think Carty believes these things and will do what he can to accomplish them.

WSPD and the conservative bloggers, on the other hand, would rather rely on private, corrupt industry than public, semi-corrupt local government. I pick semi-corrupt over corrupt.

No, TPP, I want our public servant called a "mayor" to answer the well-defined questions of the news media instead of constantly spinning his own agendas as if these questions didn't exist. Why do I have to chase the mayor when the news media is allegedly in the business of chasing him?

Hey, I like bike paths and I use the one in Walbridge Park. However, I cannot demand that public funds be spent on one just to satisfy MY desires. MY desires are MY responsibility to pay for.

Bike paths can be accomplished by the funds of private foundations utilizing public land (not useful for other purposes, as is largely the case for right-of-ways), OR they can be accomplished by user taxes in some fashion. Even a "bicycle tax" in Toledo makes more sense, like the case of paying for road repairs using gasoline taxes. Those who use bike paths should pay for them. It's our political responsibility to see that usage is metered by users.

Talk show hosts are not credentialed.

Was not talk show host Brian Wilson also trying to barge his way in?

There seems to be a sticking point regarding the duality of Kevin's role at WSPD and whether or not that duality impacts the issue.

Kevin gathers and reports the news at WSPD. He does the news between 3-6 p.m. Most of the time, he also does a talk show from 6-7 p.m. Overall, his time doing news is more than his time doing talk. (this is a fact)

Now, Helen Thomas is a columnist who get paids to voice her opinion. Her columns are syndicated, or at least published, in various newspapers. She has been a reporter in the past. She remains in the White House press pool, even though she's no longer a reporter and is not strictly a columnist.

Since so many want to compare the mayor to the president, let's use their analogy and compare Helen Thomas to Kevin Milliken.

Is Helen any less of a member of the press since she writes an opinion column than Kevin? Does the fact that both have been solely news reporters in their past impact their standing? If Helen is an example of a member of the press, how is Kevin not? Does the amount of time you spend, when you have a dual role, relevant?

Since we're on this topic, if the mayor can be both the mayor and the economic development director, why can't Kevin do the news and then host a talk show? If it's because of voicing an opinion versus reporting the news, has Kevin ever been accused of misconduct on one of his news stories? (I ask this because it goes to his ability to separate out the 'reporting' versus the 'opining.')

I'm very interested in the perspectives on these questions...

(ps - in Ohio talk show hosts and newpaper columnists can obtain press credentials...)

i dare you to hold your breath for that and see what happens.

KraZyKat - I think peole were making a distinction between attending a press and doing an interview. Even those of us who think Carty shouldn't have banned anyone from the press conference have defended Carty's and Brian's right not to answer their questions during said press conference or to grant them an interview...

It would be interesting to see if Al Franken ever had a WH press pass...

ShaneH, it's too bad you see this as an issue of sides.

NOTE: I'm not a spokesman for anyone but myself, plain and simple, and you shouldn't think of me as anything but that.

While you may have read about the latest in this saga on my blog, others have blogged about it as well.

Interesting, that you didn't post to my blog, you came over here to call me a hypocrite...oh well - it's a free world and you're free to do as you choose, as am I...that's what's great about America.

Thank you for providing those references...I'll look them up later tonight. But I'm already familiar with the Ehrlich issue - not quite sure it's the same - we'll see.

I noticed your avoidance of the Carty's Westgate and ESM fiascos. Care to explain the conspicuous absence of those little gems from your "played out record"?

Carty campaigned for mayor on the basis of "gets results". Spending money on frivolous items is not getting results. Kicking out ESM merchants on specious grounds is not getting results. Trying to seriously kill off a major real estate development in Westgate is not getting results. Flip-flopping on an important city official is not getting results.

Criticism against Carty has a lot of substance. Whine about that all you want, but your boy Carty is clinically crazy and the Westgate fiasco alone is enough reason to recall him as mayor. When the recall election comes up, you can just click his name again like you unwisely did last time.

ShaneH...I've had time to look at these examples and I don't think they're the same thing as what's going on with Carty. I realize that you said you didn't have much time, but perhaps instead of making an allegation that Bush had done the same thing, you might have done your research ahead of time...in case someone like me called you on the statement. Please accept this as a friendly suggestion and not as a criticism.

As for the examples themselves, refusing to grant an interview to someone or to answer their questions at a press conference is the perogative of the elected official. I've declined interviews at times for various reasons and I defended Carty's right to not answer questions from specific reporters, if he doesn't want to. This isn't refusing entry to a media representative at a press conference.

The second and third examples are also not similar to the actions Carty has taken.

If you want to start a separate thread on such alleged abuses, that might make for interesting discussion...but at this point, unless you have time to do more research, I'm going to consider your point not germane to the issue of Carty's behavior in this instance...

Darkside- what's with your "blue or red pill" after every comment u make.

"All evil and unhappiness in this world comes from the I-concept."

I know that it pains you that Carty was elected in such a landslide, but you really should learn to deal with that.
-----------------------------------------

And the only reason he did was because Ford was so reviled. Lud the Dud didn't even campaign.

P.S. I held my nose and voted for him too. Totally because of Ford, the Blade, Council, and their all pushing Block's smoker ban. Had I known the bastards were going to put a statewide ban on the ballot, I wouldn't have wasted my time.

"So....Do you want the blue pill...or the red one?"

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

I urge you all to apologize to the mayor and Mr. Schwartz now.

Who says GuestZero that the media are asking those well defined questions? What well defined question is it when you interrogate the mayor about a damn dog in the office? Who gives a shit.

GZ, I can agree with you here with it may have been better if it was a private foundation who sponsored it. Perhaps that private community group on the East Side should have paid for the bike path, regardless, a bike path isn't a useless asset to Toledo as I get the sense some people are making it out to be. I guarantee it'll be extensively used.

This is an excellent example.

Helen Thomas has been a member of the white house press corps since, I think, Herbert Hoover, and she is given the respect that her tenure has earned. She's given a press pass and she handles herself appropriately.

But that doesn't mean that she _must_ be given a press pass. And I'd bet that if her pass was revoked, she wouldn't try to push her way into the briefing room.

Milliken was given the same courtesy and it was later revoked. Just that simple. And not for nothing, but his actions later revealed that courtesy was grossly misplaced.

Whenever you see a /real/ journalist being interviewed, they always dodge the questions everyone really wants to know: their politics. They never discuss it. Doing so, they say, would jeopardize their ability to do their job. It would make people question their motives, it would inhibit their access, and it would hang a cloud over their head.

Well, Milliken chose to ignore this. He chose to have his proverbeal cake and eat it too. Well, now he's seeing what so many journalists have cautioned against: His motives are questioned. His access is inhibited. A cloud hangs over his head.

You said your boy Carty is clinically crazy

We don't use that "C" word, crazy. We say "mentally challenged" or "realistically challenged".

I'll tell you another cause for recall; The bike path project and the use of the TPD by Carty to visit retribution on dissenting homeowners. That was an abuse of authority at its very whitewashed best. What probably should have happened is that the State of Ohio should have stepped in, disbursed the police to their regular positions, placed Carty and the Chief of Police under arrest and held them without bond until trial.

I'm not in favor of government intervention, but in a case like that one either the State or Lucas County should have intervened to protect the populace.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Just a signature, stolen from the movie "The Matrix".

"So....Do you want the blue pill...or the red one?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

please tell me that was a joke.

otherwise, have you ever considered it should be carty doing the apologizing?

As long as there were chairs or suitable standing room, the mayor is morally obligated to tolerate any citizen coming into a press conference, provided that public decorum was involved (and it was -- Schwartz was the one causing the disturbance by refusing admittance). If he doesn't like that fact, he can hold press conferences in his own home where he actually has the right to control access (it being his private property).

It's been well established in the legal field that that as a public official, there is an expected loss of privacy, and that easily extends into a clear ban on pushing "personal" issues like personality conflicts. I couldn't care less how Carty badly feels about Wilson and Millikin; as a public official he needs to shut the fuck up about such personal issues and to treat them like any other citizens and press reps.

If there's some "press credentials" regulation in effect, then it remains curious how Wilson and Millikin could possibly NOT possess such credentials since they are clearly media representatives. Both work for media outlets as talkers and writers.

So, assuming there was enough room for 2 more people in that area, Carty and his pet dog (Schwartz) are the ones who must apologize to the public instead. Since so many Toledoans unwisely voted for Carty in the first place, I hardly expect that to happen. So, this is just one more outrage involving Crazy Carty. Here's hoping that someone will recall that bastard in 2007 and that we might end up with someone less crazy and authoritarian instead.

If I'm wrong about any of this, then let's hear it.

If I understand correctly, you seem to be making the point that Kevin's behavior justified his banishment. You make the point that Helen behaves appropriately (some might argue that point in terms of the tone she uses to address the president, but I digress).

But I don't think you're addressing the questions. Kevin didn't do anything out of the ordinary to get banned from the MLK day press conference. (For the sake of argument - let's not go into the poor behavior by everyone the next day - let's focus on the first banishment.)

Kevin expresses his opinions, so does Helen Thomas. Kevin was Ohio's 2005 reporter of the year/Helen has a long history of reporting on White House issues. The respect anyone has for them is, IMHO, not germane to their standing as a member of the press. In fact, I would say that it's wrong to try and make an argument that anyone should be allowed into a press conference based upon the 'respect' an elected official has for the specific media member.

Helen Thoms is certainly not complimentary to the current president. She hasn't been banned because the sitting president doesn't like what she wrote. For the MLK day presser, Kevin was told he wasn't going to be allowed in because the mayor didn't think he was objective.

So - they're both in the same situation of being paid for expressing their opinion. Further, Kevin's been covering mayoral press conferences all along while doing his show. What changed last week that made the mayor decide Kevin couldn't come in?

If the Mayor was going to ban Kevin because he's got a dual role, why has he allowed Kevin to cover all his previous press conferences?

fyi - Kevin wasn't given a press pass by the mayor...and the mayor didn't revoke his press pass.

I'm still interested in perspectives on the questions I asked.

Junta,

You aren't SERIOUS, are you?

Hooda Thunkit

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